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Old November 5 2013, 05:22 AM   #511
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Er.... no. Rick's plan was to deliver Michonne himself with a group. Merle took it on his own to deliver Michonne himself, believing Rick wouldn't be able to do it.
So, he's a coward who dreams up the death of a fellow survivor, but cannot carry it out himself (unless his validation-seeking wife is involved). Not a good picture.

Regardless of Rick's stories, we saw what happened. Rick killed Shane (per-emptively) in self-defense.
He's as much a murderer as he accused Shane of plotting, as Shane was ready to resign himself (to life without Lori, Carl and the unborn child), when Rick handed him the gun. Rick did not need to kill him, but Mr. Moral Compass--without a care about taking a life / the effect on others--murdered Shane.

....yeah, Carol's the one with problems?
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Old November 5 2013, 10:33 AM   #512
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Shanndee wrote: View Post
Well said RJD. This is exactly what I have been trying to say to some people on another site, but I haven't been very successful in getting my point across yet. Thank you for assuring me that I'm not "crazy"
No, you're definitely not.

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I think locking her up, giving her a "fair trial" and all of that is pure fantasy given the environment they're living in. I don't think Rick made the greatest of choices but he did what he thought was best for the group, the best for Carol and most importantly the best for him and his children. I mean, really, how much can she really be trusted now is she sneaked off to KILL two members of their group who, really, were not a threat? (Again, considering they were locked up and contained.)
That's why I said "as best they could." Obviously they won't find anybody impartial. Rick doing what he thought was best for the group was the same excuse that Carol used. It's an excuse that has been used to justify a lot of atrocities throughout history. These are people who are trying to hang on to civilization in the face of an apocalypse and that's the approach they should be using, and I'm sure the council will not be happy with him. And they shouldn't be.
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Old November 5 2013, 01:09 PM   #513
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

I agree with Carol being banished from the community and IMO I agree with Rick’s reasons for doing so but in the same token Rick is being hypocritical in his actions, he basically says she took actions for the community without consulting the counsel first but he is doing the same exact thing.

I’ve see a few comments about carol hooking up with the governor and if that happens I’ll have a hard time enjoying the show as IMO that would never happen, Carol didn’t seem to have any animosity toward Rick or the group in fact she seem like she kind of agreed with Rick, she sure didn't fight his decision very hard to be this newly formed fighter character.

I also wouldn’t want to see the Spin off show be about Carol as IMO she is not that interesting of a character, I think some respect she is a pathetic character with no new background to bring as we pretty much know all of her history now.
I also can’t see her lasting that long on her own as she is not a bad@ss like Michonne, oh the writers tried the toughen her up in the past 6-7 episodes but Melissa McBride (actress wise) is a clumsy zombie killer, you see it in the way she runs, moves and kills.

When they do the Spin off I’d like to see the show center around a military perspective, I’d like to get more info on how the government and military supposedly fell and maybe get some hints on how the ZA started and how widespread it actually is.

Last edited by PKerr; November 5 2013 at 01:36 PM.
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Old November 5 2013, 03:44 PM   #514
Morpheus 02
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Regarding Carol & the Governor...have they met before? Or seen each other? Would the governor recognize Carol? Could he have a plausible story to explain his eye? (He could be a more undercover governor in a new group, and create a new cover story).

(for a short while).

With Carols exile -- it was somewhat mutual. Don't forget -- she was right there when Tyrese pointed out the bodies, and she seemed terrified at his reaction. She KNOWS she would have to face Tyrese, and probably not survive. Yes, she's strong against Zombies. But that isn't "personal" -- he would speak loud & clear & remind her of her inhumanity. HArder to fight against (emotionally)

Not sure where they will go with Carol....I think it's good for some characters to leave in a way other than death.

For the difference between Rick & Shane and Rick & Carol......With Shane, this was just what , 2-3 weeks since Rick woke up. He just went through some IMMENSE emotions,,,,waking up to Walkerworld, shooting a little girl Walker, being reunited with his family, leaving Merle to perhaps his death, finding hope in the CDC and having it snatched away, seeing a little girl Carl's age become a walker, and then be the one to kill her, finding out about his wife's affair.

And in this crazy world, the man who has been his best friend since childhood -- the one guy he OUGHT to trust in the Apocalypse, SEEMS to want to murder him and take his wife. It seems logical to me about how he "let" Shane get him into that situation.


With Carol, he's had about 6 months of peace, to recover, so he's had his mind a bit cleared from the crazy time after Lori's death. He's thought through the consequences and anticipated fights. Like people mentioned, she's taking serious actions WITHOUT consulting interested parties (not just Tyrese with Karen, but more importantly, Carl and his LIVING now-rational father, and the other kids). I can understand her internal logic -- but in my opinion, still wrong.

I think we've had some good drama & interesting things to debate this season.
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Old November 5 2013, 04:21 PM   #515
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Rick doing what he thought was best for the group was the same excuse that Carol used. It's an excuse that has been used to justify a lot of atrocities throughout history. These are people who are trying to hang on to civilization in the face of an apocalypse and that's the approach they should be using, and I'm sure the council will not be happy with him. And they shouldn't be.
Rick's "doing what's best for the group" included him exiling a murderer.

Carol's "doing what's best for the group" included her murdering two people who posed no threat.

Those are two very different things and extremes. I doubt the council, as an entity, will have too many problems with what Rick did as near as I can tell they seem to want Rick back involved on some level. The only individual who'll have a big problem with things is going to be Daryl and even he may understand what happened once Rick explains Carol killed the two in death-row.
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Old November 5 2013, 05:27 PM   #516
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Rick's "doing what's best for the group" included him exiling a murderer.
Then he should have exiled himself for murdering Shane and planning to hand Michonne over to the Governor, knowing what would happen to her.

He's a hypocrite.

Carol's "doing what's best for the group" included her murdering two people who posed no threat.
They were sick--and heading in the same direction of the nerd kid who turned into a walker. The disease course has been established, and in the next episode preview, the doctor will show what happens beyond coughing (our last view of Karen) when he bleeds from the eyes and mouth.

Bleeding from the eyes and mouth only goes in one direction.

Carol was justified. Her eyes were wide open to what was happening.

The only individual who'll have a big problem with things is going to be Daryl and even he may understand what happened once Rick explains Carol killed the two in death-row.
Daryl is not going to just sit back and say, "oh, Rick---all on your own, you kick Carol out without involving everyone else in the discussion. Good job, Lord and Master Ricky."

...and do not be surprised if the young sisters--now trained by Carol--will do more than shed a few tears over Rick's action over the course of the season.
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Old November 5 2013, 05:33 PM   #517
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Then he should have exiled himself for murdering Shane...
IN FUCKING SELF-DEFENSE!!!

and planning to hand Michonne over to the Governor, knowing what would happen to her.
At a time when the whole group was at risk from The Governor and Rick was Ricktator and Chief. Also he DIDN'T hand her over speaks larger.
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Old November 5 2013, 05:50 PM   #518
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Yeah, it's not really hypocritical with Shane. There was no council then and it was a life and death situation. With the handing over of Michonne, there still wasn't a council, but Rick asked Herschel if he was doing the right thing, and then decided against it.

I don't know how anyone can say that what Carol was doing was rational. It was absolutely stupid because of the complete lack of understanding about how disease is transmitted.
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Old November 5 2013, 06:02 PM   #519
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I don't know how anyone can say that what Carol was doing was rational. It was absolutely stupid because of the complete lack of understanding about how disease is transmitted.
Rationality is partially defined by circumstance. It's a world where dead people get up and try to bite living people. Not knowing how disease is being transmitted is irrelevant if you know for a fact that it is, somehow, being transmitted, it's fatal, and people who die get up again and try to eat living people. And knowing how disease is ransmitted is still irrelevant in an environment where proper isolation and treatment are impossible.

Carol did what she could with the knowledge she had and the circumstances she was given to work with. Exile her all you want, but i'm not jumping down her throat about it.
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Old November 5 2013, 06:41 PM   #520
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Not knowing how disease is being transmitted is irrelevant
It's absolutely relevant. She thought that she should kill the people who were in quarantine and then burn their bodies as if that were a solution to the transmission. It's entirely ignorant of how diseases work and is more of a throwback to how primitive people dealt with disease. She should know better.
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Old November 5 2013, 07:32 PM   #521
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Not knowing how disease is being transmitted is irrelevant

It's absolutely relevant. She thought that she should kill the people who were in quarantine and then burn their bodies as if that were a solution to the transmission.

That is a solution to the disease that’s most prevalent in her world: the one that makes dead people get up and try to eat living people. Immobilize them by cutting off or destroying the brain, then destroy the diseased tissue.


It's entirely ignorant of how diseases work and is more of a throwback to how primitive people dealt with disease. She should know better.

Which is a perfectly rational option when all you have are primitive methods for fighting disease because there are no such things as clean rooms or pressurized isolation rooms anymore, you can’t mass produce antibiotics and you can’t get to the drugs already available because getting to them means going through masses of dead people who want to eat you.


She probably does know better. She’s working with what she has at her disposal.


Still on Team Carol.
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Old November 5 2013, 07:56 PM   #522
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

It's not a rational option at all. It's primitive, doesn't work, and ignores many basic facts about the spread of these types of disease. The best thing at her disposal was to do what they are doing now by isolating those with the disease, looking for preexisting medications, and possibly cultivating new remedies. Murdering them before they turn isn't really a solution, it's just psychopathic.
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Old November 5 2013, 08:12 PM   #523
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Slightly off topic. Ouch - George Romero hates the Walking Dead:

When you’re a horror-film legend like George A. Romero, you’ve got certain clout. And Romero used that clout to not only decline a chance to work on AMC’s The Walking Dead, but to let the world know via an interview with Britain’s The Big Issue that he didn’t want to get associated with “a soap opera with a zombie occasionally.”
Ouch.
Romero revealed that he was asked to make a couple of episodes of the hugely popular hit series, but declined. “I always used the zombie as a character for satire or a political criticism and I find that missing in what’s happening now,” the creator of Night of the Living Dead said.
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Old November 5 2013, 08:30 PM   #524
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

DarthTom wrote: View Post
Slightly off topic. Ouch - George Romero hates the Walking Dead:

When you’re a horror-film legend like George A. Romero, you’ve got certain clout. And Romero used that clout to not only decline a chance to work on AMC’s The Walking Dead, but to let the world know via an interview with Britain’s The Big Issue that he didn’t want to get associated with “a soap opera with a zombie occasionally.”
Ouch.
Romero revealed that he was asked to make a couple of episodes of the hugely popular hit series, but declined. “I always used the zombie as a character for satire or a political criticism and I find that missing in what’s happening now,” the creator of Night of the Living Dead said.

Why would you be a fan of something that totally blows away anything you've ever done in the genre and makes you irrelevant?
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Old November 5 2013, 08:49 PM   #525
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

PKerr wrote: View Post
Why would you be a fan of something that totally blows away anything you've ever done in the genre and makes you irrelevant?
I suppose. It's akin to Majel Barrett [rest her soul] or Gene Roddenberry telling JJ Abrams he's destroyed Trek.

I dunno - a little more acclaim from the original of all the Zombie producers to the most successful today would have been more gracious - on his part.
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