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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 196 56.32%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 57 16.38%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 38 10.92%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 51 14.66%
I don't know. 6 1.72%
Voters: 348. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 5 2013, 06:14 PM   #541
Ryan8bit
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Terminator is a pretty good example. The Sarah Connor Chronicles basically ignored T3 and rebooted off of T2. Terminator: Salvation then went back to T3.

But it doesn't really matter if it's been done before or not. All that matters is if something is viable. And personally, I don't think there's much difference between the old universe, the Abrams universe, and just doing a new reboot altogether. As long as they tell good stories with good characters, people will watch.
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Old November 5 2013, 06:17 PM   #542
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

In the case of Stargate, the cartoon spinoff got erased from continuity, so that could partially qualify.

You have:
  1. Movie
  2. SG-1
  3. SGI
  4. SGA
  5. SGU
The animated spinoff SGI is not a part of SG canon, but it aired between SG-1 and SGA. One could argue that had SGI been more successful, it would not have been disowned like that, and possibly SGA and SGU never would have come to pass (instead we might have had something else). Of course, SGI is a cartoon, and doesn't have essential characteristics of a reboot. However, to everything that aired after SGI, SGI never happened.
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Old November 5 2013, 07:08 PM   #543
JarodRussell
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
As long as they tell good stories with good characters, people will watch.
And because of that, it would not hurt them the tiniest bit to make it part of the Prime universe.
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Old November 5 2013, 07:37 PM   #544
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Lynx wrote: View Post
Just look and see what we had. We had this universe created in TNG, DS9 and VOY with hundreds of exciting races and enormous possibilities to come up with good stories about all this. And what do the fools do? They regress back to pre-TOS, followed by a lousy remake of the same series. It's like if the whole music industry should abandon the technology of today and go back to 78 rpm records and technology from the 30's.
No it's not. "How did the Federation come about?" is a question fans have been asking since TOS. How do you tell that story? A prequel. The execution was hit-and-miss (miss in seasons one and two, BIG hit in three and four IMO), but the concept of a prequel is a sound one.

And how else do you tell new stories with a young Kirk and Spock, without having to worry about fans going, "We know they'll make it because Kirk doesn't die until in Generations"? You reboot it so those prior destinies are irrelevant. We now have that same universe with hundreds of races, but where anything can happen.
It was not "adament stubborn entitlement" which (temporarily) killed the primeverse (the real Star Trek) but greed and stupidity.
Fans said the exact same thing with reference to TOS when Next Generation came along
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Old November 5 2013, 07:43 PM   #545
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
In the case of Stargate, the cartoon spinoff got erased from continuity, so that could partially qualify.

You have:
  1. Movie
  2. SG-1
  3. SGI
  4. SGA
  5. SGU
The animated spinoff SGI is not a part of SG canon, but it aired between SG-1 and SGA. One could argue that had SGI been more successful, it would not have been disowned like that, and possibly SGA and SGU never would have come to pass (instead we might have had something else). Of course, SGI is a cartoon, and doesn't have essential characteristics of a reboot. However, to everything that aired after SGI, SGI never happened.
IIRC, SGI was made by different people to the live-action series'.

Although he's now talking about a fresh reboot (owing to the age of Kurt Russel and James Spader), Roland Emmerich talked a bit a few years ago about making 2 sequels to the original Stargate movie, which would have ignored all the TV spin-off series. Although not a true reboot, Stargate SG-1 did make several big changes to the original movie's backstory and going back to the original premise would qualify, I think.
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Old November 5 2013, 07:56 PM   #546
Hober Mallow
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
As long as they tell good stories with good characters, people will watch.
And because of that, it would not hurt them the tiniest bit to make it part of the Prime universe.
But, again, what's the "Prime Universe?" The original TV series upon which all the derivative shows are based? Or are you including the derivative spinoffs as well? In that case, you're talking about a universe created and maintained for the spinoffs, not for the original. That would be like insisting that all future Sherlock Holmes productions be based on the derivative films featuring Basil Rathbone and not purely the original Conan Doyle stories.

There's nothing "prime" about the Trek spinoffs. No matter how good (or bad) they are, they are derivative works. As are, for that matter, the TOS feature films. They are no more valid or "prime" than any derivative of Star Trek, including the Abrams films. In fact, though I don't actually like the Abrams films, I consider them more "prime" than Voyager or Enterprise, because, featuring Kirk and Spock and the Enterprise, they're closer to the original material.
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Old November 5 2013, 08:00 PM   #547
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Whatever they do, there will inevitably be continuity errors, leading to fans posting threads like this and insisting that the new Prime-verse series is really set in an alternate universe despite the producers intentions...

(I should point out that we're at the point there it's impossible for a new show to remain 100% consistent with TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT, since they all contradict each other on so much)
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Old November 5 2013, 08:03 PM   #548
Hober Mallow
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Whatever they do, there will inevitably be continuity errors, leading to fans posting threads like this and insisting that the new Prime-verse series is really set in an alternate universe despite the producers intentions...
That's another good reason for a reboot: to save us from annoying threads like those.
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Old November 5 2013, 08:20 PM   #549
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
But, again, what's the "Prime Universe?" The original TV series upon which all the derivative shows are based? Or are you including the derivative spinoffs as well? In that case, you're talking about a universe created and maintained for the spinoffs, not for the original. That would be like insisting that all future Sherlock Holmes productions be based on the derivative films featuring Basil Rathbone and not purely the original Conan Doyle stories.

There's nothing "prime" about the Trek spinoffs. No matter how good (or bad) they are, they are derivative works. As are, for that matter, the TOS feature films. They are no more valid or "prime" than any derivative of Star Trek, including the Abrams films. In fact, though I don't actually like the Abrams films, I consider them more "prime" than Voyager or Enterprise, because, featuring Kirk and Spock and the Enterprise, they're closer to the original material.
"Prime" has been defined so many times that it shouldn't really need to be restated. In the credits of the new movies, Leonard Nimoy was credited as Spock Prime. This refers to the reality that he comes from, one that we assume to be of one continuity despite all of the errors and broad strokes that it was painted in. With Abrams' movies, it's deliberately a new continuity, although somewhat tethered to the old.

That's really all it is. And none of that has anything to do with how derivative anything is. Everything about Star Trek, even TOS, is derivative in some fashion, and there isn't some spectrum of derivation, especially focused on which characters are and aren't used. The "Prime" designation has no bearing on quality.
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Old November 5 2013, 08:25 PM   #550
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
I'm not sure how a film that has been rebooted (from Christopher Reeve's Superman to the animated Superman: Brainiac Attacks where Jonathan Kent lives) and then returned to a previous continuity (Superman Returns returning to Christopher Reeve's Superman) doesn't count.
I'm pretty sure that most folks see animation and live-action as two distinct animals.
Exactly.
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Old November 5 2013, 09:36 PM   #551
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Whomever ends up in charge of televised Trek will end up being the one who makes the decision one way or the other of continuing the old timeline, the Abramverse timeline or wiping the slate clean and starting over.

For a creator, I would think a clean slate would be the most attractive way to go. You can pick and choose the elements you want to use, disregard the rest and not worry about conflict with prior works.
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Old November 5 2013, 11:58 PM   #552
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
I'm not sure how a film that has been rebooted (from Christopher Reeve's Superman to the animated Superman: Brainiac Attacks where Jonathan Kent lives) and then returned to a previous continuity (Superman Returns returning to Christopher Reeve's Superman) doesn't count.
I'm pretty sure that most folks see animation and live-action as two distinct animals.
Exactly.
I thought I remembered a live action Lois and Clark movie and while Googling for it I came across the Trekbbs post below that supports my point. It so happens to have you on the other side of the argument:
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I honestly can't think of a single movie or tv franchise that reverted back to a previous continuity after being rebooted.
"Superman Returns" ignored "Superman III", "Supergirl" and "Superman IV: The Quest for Peace" and was a sequel to "Superman II".
The rest of Reeve's movies were ignored and they did go back to a previous continuity.

Last edited by bbjeg; November 6 2013 at 03:06 AM.
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Old November 6 2013, 12:00 AM   #553
Greg Cox
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post

The rest of Reeve's movies were ignored and they did go back to a previous continuity.
More like they ignored parts of the same continuity. Not quite the same thing.
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Old November 6 2013, 12:04 AM   #554
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

How exactly were Superman III and IV ignored? They're not referenced, but AFAIK, there's nothing to directly refute them having "happened" in the Superman Returns timeline, prior to Supes' packing for Krypton. I see more of a "that never happened" vibe in STVI, after Kirk's friendly drinking with Klingons at the end of STV.
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Old November 6 2013, 12:13 AM   #555
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I'm sure if Superman Returns was a hit, IMHO the would be trilogy wouldn't have a Richard Pryor-esk character, nor will it ever reference the remaining movies. What's the point of starting a movie in the middle of a set of movies if you planned to keep the rest of them anyway?
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