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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old November 5 2013, 06:28 PM   #16
Greg Cox
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
After destroying the natives' whole economy, social order, and way of life (forced to or not), Kirk is incredibly cavalier and insouciant about it. "Yeah, you've just lost your eternal youth so you'll start aging now, and your community is too small to survive as a viable gene pool, and you have no idea how much hard labor is ahead of you as subsistance farmers, but you're going to like it soon."
But . . . but they can learn about sex now. That makes up for any other inconveniences, right? (Kirk certainly seems to think so!)

And dare I mentioned that I have an autographed photo of Celeste Yarnall on my wall, only a few feet away from where I'm typing this? (Celeste tried to talk me into writing her character into the novels once . . ..)
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Old November 5 2013, 06:45 PM   #17
Corylea
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

scotpens wrote: View Post
But by the middle of the second season, the forced jokey ending was already becoming a Trek cliché.
I wouldn't mind a GOOD jokey ending, but they were often so very labored.


scotpens wrote: View Post
And what's with the bit where Kirk says to Scotty: "If you can't get those warp engines working, you're fired"? Fired? They're the C.O. and chief engineer of a military starship, not a civilian employee and his boss. I suppose that line could have been meant as a joke, but it just comes across as sloppy writing.
It's meant to be a jokey way of saying, "I'll be very unhappy with you," which makes it a way of showing Kirk's persona as a man who bonds with his crew and who doesn't just snap out orders. This means that it's not sloppy writing; it's character-based writing.
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Old November 5 2013, 06:48 PM   #18
Grant
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died. If Kirk is a realistic character, his happy-talk with Spock and McCoy is a total facade here. He has to explain his losses to the Admiralty and probably write letters to four next of kin.

"Obsession" is another offender in this regard. "City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.
You are 100% right---the episodes where Kirk reminds us that he is still feeling the loss are far superior to the lousy joke enders like Galileo Seven and Friday's Child.

Also on the positive ledger side WNMHGB and Balance of Terror.
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Old November 5 2013, 07:18 PM   #19
MikeH92467
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Corylea wrote: View Post
scotpens wrote: View Post
But by the middle of the second season, the forced jokey ending was already becoming a Trek cliché.
I wouldn't mind a GOOD jokey ending, but they were often so very labored.


scotpens wrote: View Post
And what's with the bit where Kirk says to Scotty: "If you can't get those warp engines working, you're fired"? Fired? They're the C.O. and chief engineer of a military starship, not a civilian employee and his boss. I suppose that line could have been meant as a joke, but it just comes across as sloppy writing.
It's meant to be a jokey way of saying, "I'll be very unhappy with you," which makes it a way of showing Kirk's persona as a man who bonds with his crew and who doesn't just snap out orders. This means that it's not sloppy writing; it's character-based writing.
It wasn't really jokey, it was graveyard humor. Kirk knew Scotty was doing everything humanly possible and Scotty knew they were screwed if they didn't get the engines, but Kirk is the boss and he has to do something to inspire his crew, so it was a half-hearted joke instead of wasting their time with a tirade. I thought it was a bit of excellent writing, amid some, well, not so great writing.
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Old November 5 2013, 07:18 PM   #20
Melakon
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
(Celeste tried to talk me into writing her character into the novels once . . ..)
Then she'd sue you for a percentage for giving you the idea if it was a best-seller. Gotta watch out for actors and their attorneys.
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Old November 5 2013, 07:33 PM   #21
T'Girl
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

scotpens wrote: View Post
They're the C.O. and chief engineer of a military starship, not a civilian employee and his boss.
It was likely dark humor, however a commanding officer can "fire" a subordinate officer by permanately releaving them of their duties and replacing they with a new officer.

Scott would go into Starfleet's "labor pool,' and await a new assignment. Any prospective new commanding officer would take into account the he was releaved with prejudice from him last posting.

Again probably just dark humor.


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Old November 5 2013, 09:08 PM   #22
scotpens
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

MikeH92467 wrote: View Post
Corylea wrote: View Post
scotpens wrote: View Post
And what's with the bit where Kirk says to Scotty: "If you can't get those warp engines working, you're fired"? Fired? They're the C.O. and chief engineer of a military starship, not a civilian employee and his boss. I suppose that line could have been meant as a joke, but it just comes across as sloppy writing.
It's meant to be a jokey way of saying, "I'll be very unhappy with you," which makes it a way of showing Kirk's persona as a man who bonds with his crew and who doesn't just snap out orders. This means that it's not sloppy writing; it's character-based writing.
It wasn't really jokey, it was graveyard humor. Kirk knew Scotty was doing everything humanly possible and Scotty knew they were screwed if they didn't get the engines, but Kirk is the boss and he has to do something to inspire his crew, so it was a half-hearted joke instead of wasting their time with a tirade. I thought it was a bit of excellent writing, amid some, well, not so great writing.
Well, maybe it was just too subtle for me.
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Old November 5 2013, 09:22 PM   #23
Melakon
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Definitions of humor have changed a little bit over the last 50 years.
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Old November 5 2013, 10:28 PM   #24
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died..."City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.
Agreed. That "Jackson is dead" line at the end of Catspaw, to me at least, totally redeems a crazy episode.
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Old November 5 2013, 10:51 PM   #25
Grant
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died..."City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.
Agreed. That "Jackson is dead" line at the end of Catspaw, to me at least, totally redeems a crazy episode.
Yeah but 2 episodes later Grant got no such respect!
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Old November 5 2013, 10:56 PM   #26
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Grant wrote: View Post
Yeah but 2 episodes later Grant got no such respect!
That's true, but....Jackson had that great stunt fall that gave his life meaning. Yes, that's it.

Grant didn't get it because....well, at the end a baby was born, and that symbolized new life in the shadow of death...oh wait, that was Star Trek II...
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Old November 5 2013, 11:03 PM   #27
Melakon
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Grant wrote: View Post
Yeah but 2 episodes later Grant got no such respect!
That's true, but....Jackson had that great stunt fall that gave his life meaning. Yes, that's it.

Grant didn't get it because....well, at the end a baby was born, and that symbolized new life in the shadow of death...oh wait, that was Star Trek II...
Of course Grant got respect!

KIRK: He was young, and inexperienced.
Translation: He was a stupid kid.
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Old November 5 2013, 11:12 PM   #28
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Melakon wrote: View Post
Translation: He was a stupid kid.
And in spite of that, Kirk brought him on a mission where a violation of hair-trigger cultural mores could've destroyed the mission!

But far be it from me to call Kirk a stupid Captain!
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Old November 5 2013, 11:36 PM   #29
Melakon
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Was Grant even at McCoy's pre-mission briefing? Maybe he didn't get the memo.
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Old November 6 2013, 01:14 AM   #30
Sir Rhosis
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
And dare I mentioned that I have an autographed photo of Celeste Yarnall on my wall, only a few feet away from where I'm typing this? (Celeste tried to talk me into writing her character into the novels once . . ..)
If I may... why not? No interest in the character of Landon; haven't found a suitable plot to plug the character into...?

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