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Old November 2 2013, 11:25 PM   #16
R. Star
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

Sisko never had any problems with Q after that knockdown.
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Old November 3 2013, 08:55 PM   #17
Nine of Four
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

When they make a new Trek series, a two-part episode that explores the Continuums limitations, maybe even finds the source of their power, would be awesome.
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Old November 3 2013, 09:18 PM   #18
GENERAL_DS
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

Boo of Four wrote: View Post
When they make a new Trek series, a two-part episode that explores the Continuums limitations, maybe even finds the source of their power, would be awesome.
''It would take the mystery away, just like they did with the borg.''

This is what other people probably will say But i don't care, i even loved the Borg episodes on VOY.

Didnt Q say that humanity might be even more powerfull then the Q in the future? That would imply that the Q are not omnipotent, since humans (And most likely technology) can surpass the Q in one way or another.
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Old November 3 2013, 09:48 PM   #19
TheGoodStuff
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

To be honest, I think the Q are the masters of Bravado. It seems to be, that the franchise lightly hints at this too.

1. We know a Q dies, on Earth, due to a tornado. [I hope im recalling correctly, havent seen that episode for a while]

2. Q is shown to be 'stripped of his powers'.

3. There is a civil war in which Q die.

4. Q seems intimidated by Guinan, and she seems poised to defend herself. A ridiculous notion if it were a true 'god' however she seems serious enough. He even calls her an 'imp'....which implies some sort of impish behaviour against the continuum.



I have always suspected the Q exaggerate their power to portray an aura of invincibility to the less developed races [who have insufficient resources to prove otherwise]. No doubt they are vastly powerful....but not omnipotent. The mere word makes no sense.
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Old November 3 2013, 10:17 PM   #20
Nine of Four
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

^ Exactly. The Q are, mostly, arrogant assholes who want to seem all-powerful, so it makes sense that they would fake their own abilities.
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Old November 3 2013, 10:41 PM   #21
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

The Q are more powerful than we can ever imagine, be it due to biological / cognitive abilities or some outrageously advanced technology. Leave it at that.

As Jackson Pollock said of his work: " Any attempt on my part to say something about it, to attempt explanation of the inexplicable, could only destroy it."

(See: midi-chlorians).
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Old November 4 2013, 02:26 AM   #22
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

GENERAL_DS wrote: View Post
Boo of Four wrote: View Post
When they make a new Trek series, a two-part episode that explores the Continuums limitations, maybe even finds the source of their power, would be awesome.
''It would take the mystery away, just like they did with the borg.''

This is what other people probably will say But i don't care, i even loved the Borg episodes on VOY.

Didnt Q say that humanity might be even more powerfull then the Q in the future? That would imply that the Q are not omnipotent, since humans (And most likely technology) can surpass the Q in one way or another.
What if they are humans from the future?
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Old November 4 2013, 08:02 AM   #23
GENERAL_DS
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

Interesting thought Harbinger. They might even be possible. Since they have, according to q, Unlimited control of space, time and matter it doesnt matter (pun unintended) when humans will be as powerfull since when you have the ability to timetravel without limitations you live free of the timeline.
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Old November 5 2013, 06:46 AM   #24
Captain Kronos
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

While the Q are undeniably magnitudes more powerful than any other known faction in Star Trek I don't really think that they have unlimited power.

For starters, the Q Civil War shows that not only can they apparently be killed but the way in which they kill each other, judging by the setting off of supernovae, seems fairly traditional- as in through the use of some sort of (highly advanced) weapons versus just blinking each other out of existence. Adding to that the word of Quinn - which even coming from a dissenter probably had at least some truth to it as these things usually do - and the fact that the relationship between the Q and the relatively unadvanced El-Aurians doesn't seem completely one-sided and I seriously doubt the Continuum has true omnipotence at their disposal.

I'd question Q's claims of omniscience as well seeing as there appears to still be room for debate and new ideas within the Continuum and I also doubt the Qs' abilities to see their own futures.

GENERAL_DS wrote: View Post
Boo of Four wrote: View Post
When they make a new Trek series, a two-part episode that explores the Continuums limitations, maybe even finds the source of their power, would be awesome.
''It would take the mystery away, just like they did with the borg.''

This is what other people probably will say But i don't care, i even loved the Borg episodes on VOY.

Didnt Q say that humanity might be even more powerfull then the Q in the future? That would imply that the Q are not omnipotent, since humans (And most likely technology) can surpass the Q in one way or another.
Personally I'm one of the people who dislikes how the franchise handled the Borg in later years (for me it wasn't really an issue of 'taking the mystery away' but rather the fact that they just seemed to take the Collective's teeth away almost entirely over just a few seasons) but I actually wouldn't mind them doing the same with the Q. To be honest I never liked the idea of the Q because I feel that any force that can completely alter time and reality at will essentially makes the importance of character actions and decisions moot and thus fictional worlds should avoid the inclusion of omnipotent beings altogether.

Of course I have similar feelings about the use of time-travel but good luck separating that particular bushel of thorns from the Star Trek universe.
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Old November 5 2013, 08:57 AM   #25
QCzar
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

Captain Kronos wrote: View Post
While the Q are undeniably magnitudes more powerful than any other known faction in Star Trek I don't really think that they have unlimited power.
I wouldn't say "any other known faction", but of course the vast majority. The Organians seem quite capable, as do the (ascended?) Ocampa, the Nacene, Nagilum, "God" and of course the Prophets/Pah'Wraiths.

Are they equal to the Q? Well, despite the consensus of the thread, probably not. Not much less advanced though.

To date we've not seen the Q interact with any other aliens of this type. IMO, this only adds to the idea that Q is at least partially boasting.
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Old November 5 2013, 12:35 PM   #26
Nightdiamond
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

It could be argued that even if they were using some technology, they could still be considered omnipotent.

OTOH, the Q might not be using technology at all.

Some beings are shown doing powerful things simply with the power of their minds without using technology.

The John Doe character from TNG evolved into some type of energy being, and did things with a thought. So did the Ocompa and maybe the Dowd.

I remember when TNG was on, the Q were considered absolutely all powerful and awesome, and now, they're not as awesome, because they might be using some type of technology to do what they did.

Like the wizard of Oz. Blame Voyager again

So does the debate mean that if they used technology it makes them less godlike, or if it's totally natural it makes them more godlike?
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Old November 5 2013, 02:35 PM   #27
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
It could be argued that even if they were using some technology, they could still be considered omnipotent.

OTOH, the Q might not be using technology at all.

Some beings are shown doing powerful things simply with the power of their minds without using technology.

The John Doe character from TNG evolved into some type of energy being, and did things with a thought. So did the Ocompa and maybe the Dowd.

I remember when TNG was on, the Q were considered absolutely all powerful and awesome, and now, they're not as awesome, because they might be using some type of technology to do what they did.

Like the wizard of Oz. Blame Voyager again

So does the debate mean that if they used technology it makes them less godlike, or if it's totally natural it makes them more godlike?
To be clear I don't think everyone doubting their supposed omnipotence is saying it's because of technology. That's unnecessarily reductive. There are just general doubts that Q has always told the truth about his peoples' power. It's due not only to Quinn (or even Voyager at large), but many small indicators (Amanda, Guinan, the persistence of other similar races that do not make such claims but possess demonstrably similar power), as well as the fact that we have only one Q's word.

And that one Q is possessed of a rather acerbic, mischievous and mercurial personality.

Remember Nightdiamond, the Cardassians are the Alpha Quadrant's most magnificent civilization...according to the Cardassians. Of course, because they're closer to humanity's level, we can clearly see that they are not. The Q ask us to trust, on faith alone, that they are basically gods and the only proof they offer us is a bunch of (admittedly frighteningly powerful) parlor tricks and the occasional wonder.

As you may know, omnipotence is considered by most non-religious folks to be an immense paradox: if an omnipotent being can create a stone too heavy for it to lift, how can it be omnipotent; but if it cannot....and so on. The Q have already shown themselves vulnerable to death. Whether it is in their own nature or not is beside the point. If an omnipotent, omnipresent entity can be made to cease being omnipotent, then was it really ever omnipotent in the first place?

This is why I and many are skeptical about his claims. It may indeed be in the Q's nature to "seem" vulnerable, such as getting punched by Sisko, while being in complete control of every situation that could ever possibly exist. But how do we measure this? By what laws of logic does the Continuum operate? Simply saying that it's beyond our "puny" minds is a cop-out.

We don't automatically think, simply because we can't explain how the Prophets work, that they're omnipotent. Why does Q get the benefit of the doubt? His boyish charm?

Super powerful? Obviously. Omnipotent? Doubtful. And to be honest I also doubt anyone on the Enterprise-D or Voyager ever truly believed this either.
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Old November 5 2013, 03:08 PM   #28
MikeS
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

Harbinger wrote: View Post
What if they are humans from the future?
A point I made on here several years ago. They are masters of time and space, so why not our super evolved selves? And Q is some kind of guide to help us fulfill our roles of evolving into him. A temporal paradox of sorts.
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Old November 5 2013, 09:42 PM   #29
NeedleOfInquiry
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

[/QUOTE]


This is why I and many are skeptical about his claims. It may indeed be in the Q's nature to "seem" vulnerable, such as getting punched by Sisko, while being in complete control of every situation that could ever possibly exist. But how do we measure this? By what laws of logic does the Continuum operate? Simply saying that it's beyond our "puny" minds is a cop-out.

[/QUOTE]

How so? That precludes the possibility that there are things that Humans simply aren't smart enough to understand, a rather arrogant belief. As for how we "measure" the Q, we can't. That's the whole point.
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Old November 5 2013, 10:24 PM   #30
JirinPanthosa
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Re: How Powerful Are The Q / Continuum?

Based on the facts we've seen established in the series, we know the Q are energy beings and they are capable of taking a physical form. While in a physical form they are proven vulnerable in that form HOWEVER they have some kind of energy store that lets them protect themselves. When they are injured or drained of that energy they are trapped in whatever form they are in at the time and vulnerable as a creature of that form (Deja Q, True Q, Death Wish, Q And The Grey, Q2).

Is that power source something internal to their being or something external, as in the case of Squire of Porthos? We do not know but it seems to be something internal.

I would hypothesize that the Q powers somehow tap into that 'Space, time and thought are all one' stuff referenced in the sillier Wesley stories, and their powers are only as strong as the extent they can tap into that.
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