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Old November 3 2013, 10:03 AM   #181
Enterprise is Great
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

I really didn't like Brother Blood's mask. I wish it looked a bit more like the comic version. I wonder what that was that he had injected into the Mayor.
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Old November 3 2013, 10:30 AM   #182
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

He looked like Scarecrow and that looked like Venom.

It's like they had no respect for any batlines drawn in the sand between the brands.

Introducing the League of Assassins last week proved that well enough.
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Old November 3 2013, 06:55 PM   #183
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

I did not like that mask either. Beyond the Scarecrow similarities, which are not that strong to me, its very dull and generic looking. Like something bought at a costume shop. Making with white would made it more skull looking.
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Old November 3 2013, 07:57 PM   #184
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

The creepy bit from the comics is that he bathes in his enemies blood.

Considering that Ollie gets by disguising himself with eyeshadow, Brother Blood might has only needed a little blush.

Considering it was just ago month ago that we saw Kathy Bates use a freshly and personally extracted human pancreas as a compress, some of us would have been prepared for this level of odd.
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Old November 3 2013, 08:01 PM   #185
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Grimm had someone using human innards (well, hexen beast innards) as skin cream this past week. No biggy.
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Old November 3 2013, 09:49 PM   #186
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

If they writers are taking cues from the Nolanverse, does that mean Yao Fei is Ra's? Then that would make Shado Talia.

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Old November 3 2013, 09:56 PM   #187
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

And what if Talia was seen prancing about with a bun in her oven?
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Old November 4 2013, 03:45 AM   #188
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
She' really hasn't been in enough scenes to be annoying to the degree you claim. As for being unneeded, I would disagree. Like Digg and Felicity, Sin serves as a sounding board. BC can unload on her and use her as an exposition "dump". Her friendship with Roy and Thea probably has purpose was well. Not seeing the bad acting or writing. She's no worse than any other actor on the show. Her dialog doesn't seem any worse either. Examples? What makes her "grating". Again, examples. Just repeating she's a "punk/street urchin cliche" does little to shed any light on your opinion. Roy's been in the show for a while and has had time to develop. When he first showed up he wasn't all that different than Sin.
I don't know what else to say. She wastes time that could be used for much better/important things, and every time she talks she goes from pointless to outright annoying. Its not the actress's voice or way of talking or anything, I just hate her type of character, which is, like I've said, the generic street urchin/punk cliche with almost no personality, and what we get is just annoying.

As for BC, if she wasn't who she was I'd have a much lower opinion of her character. Also, with the comic book version, outside of possibly the Golden age BC (who I don't think I've ever read in a golden age book), the normal BC wasn't a sidekick. She was a justice league member, and while she didn't get too much of a spotlight until Birds of Prey, that doesn't make her anything like Arrow's Sin. Also, being a sidekick/side character doesn't make you pointless, and being interesting can make up for not being strictly needed for a story. Sin has no redeeming qualities. BC doesn't need a "sounding board". Also, exposition dumps can be done in much better ways. BC is in the TV show to set up a reveal to her family, and probably die. For that role, she works well enough. I don't really count her as "Black Canary", she really is nothing like her, but she serves a purpose and is an interesting character. I'd prefer a more accurate BC, and if rumors are true we may eventually get one closer to the character. If Sin could develop an important/interesting role and a personality that didn't annoy me, I'd put her in the same category as BC. She won't and most likely just can't at this point (how do you retcon a punk/street urchin character? secretly make her parents super nice rich people?) but she could have been good, even as a 20 year old sidekick for a secondary character like BC.

Also, I know about Starling. The New 52 is about 95% pure crap, and New 52 BC/Birds of Prey are definately in that category. I'd say Starling may be slightly more pointless that Sin in Arrow, because (while I don't think its needed) like you said, she can be an exposition dump. Starling doesn't even have that going for her.
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Old November 4 2013, 05:07 AM   #189
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

kirk55555 wrote:
As for BC, if she wasn't who she was I'd have a much lower opinion of her character. Also, with the comic book version, outside of possibly the Golden age BC (who I don't think I've ever read in a golden age book), the normal BC wasn't a sidekick. She was a justice league member, and while she didn't get too much of a spotlight until Birds of Prey, that doesn't make her anything like Arrow's Sin. Also, being a sidekick/side character doesn't make you pointless, and being interesting can make up for not being strictly needed for a story. Sin has no redeeming qualities. BC doesn't need a "sounding board". Also, exposition dumps can be done in much better ways. BC is in the TV show to set up a reveal to her family, and probably die. For that role, she works well enough. I don't really count her as "Black Canary", she really is nothing like her, but she serves a purpose and is an interesting character. I'd prefer a more accurate BC, and if rumors are true we may eventually get one closer to the character. If Sin could develop an important/interesting role and a personality that didn't annoy me, I'd put her in the same category as BC. She won't and most likely just can't at this point (how do you retcon a punk/street urchin character? secretly make her parents super nice rich people?) but she could have been good, even as a 20 year old sidekick for a secondary character like BC.
Of course BC needs an "sounding board". And by that I mean someone for a character to interact with and talk to. In film and TV this an important way to give viewers information.

The "normal BC" was a secondary character for years. As a JLA member and as a supporting character in the Green Lantern/Green Arrow strip and the Green Arrow solo strip.

I didn't bring up BC's history to compare her to Sin, but to point out the irony of your statement "Black Canary doesn't need a sidekick".

How is this version of BC inaccurate? The Canary is know for two things: Being a master of the martial arts and having the Canary Cry. Both of which the Arrow version of BC has.
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Old November 4 2013, 05:27 AM   #190
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Well, she never acted as an assassin, had no sister, was named Dinah Laurel Lance, and didn't know Ollie until they met as superheroes. She also wasn't trained by the league of assassins, she was trained mostly by her mom's friend, ted grant aka Wildcat.

Even taking away the Wildcat/Mom being a superhero thing (which I obviously didn't expect the show to follow), the TV one is still most likely a killer, definately connected to the LEague of Assassins, and identity/personality wise is nothing like the comic book version. Heck, if you really want to nitpick they don't even share a hair color, since BC in the comics has natural black hair and wore a blonde wig for a long time, until she started dyeing her hair. (NOTE: I don't even consider this when talking about the Arrow character, I just brought it up because I just thought of it, it has no bearing on what I think about arrow's BC).

It doesn't matter that much, since the Arrow BC is meant to play a role that the comic version wouldn't fit. Still, she is almost nothing like the comic character, out side of wearing black, being a fighter and calling herself Black Canary, they basically have nothing in common. The comic version was definately a hero, not a former assassin, and is just generally a good person. Arrow BC is atleast an assassin, probably did even worse things, and thats not even bringing up the fact that she's described herself as a bad/irresponsible person for things she did before she became BC. Whole I think BC works for the show, she is almost nothing like the comic version. Thats not bad for what Arrow is trying to do (although I would like a BC closer to the comics).

When I say she's different, I'm talking about the characters themselves, not superficial stuff like a canary cry or the way they fight. I'm talking how the comic version acts/her personality vs. the one in arrow. In that respect, they're almost polar opposites.
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Old November 4 2013, 06:00 AM   #191
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

I wasn't surprised by Black Canary's identity, I don't think they ever said it outright before the season started, but the way they kept talking up her connection to Laurel made it pretty obvious. The reveal about Brother Blood wasn't surprising either, but I am curious to see exactly what he was up to. I really enjoyed this episode, I am so glad they didn't drag either of those reveals out.
Fun little fact for any Lost Girl fans in the forum, The Mayor was played by the same actor the first Ash.
I'm very curious to see what else happened on the Gambit. I'm also curious if Shado is actually dead, we never did see a body after all.
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Old November 4 2013, 06:29 AM   #192
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Well, she never acted as an assassin, had no sister, was named Dinah Laurel Lance, and didn't know Ollie until they met as superheroes. She also wasn't trained by the league of assassins, she was trained mostly by her mom's friend, ted grant aka Wildcat.
That's just one version though. There have been a couple of versions in the comics and one on Smallville.

The Golden age version went by the name Dinah Drake, didn't have the Canary Cry and was the daughter of a police detective. She also pretended to be a criminal at first. When she got her own strip she worked with police detective Larry Lance.

In the Silver Age she and Larry were married and lived on Earth 2. When Larry died she moved to Earth 1, gained the Canary Cry and became involved with Green Arrow.

In the Bronze they realized BC was getting too old ( she debuted in the late 40s) and pulled a retcon making the BC in the JLA the daughter of the BC in the JSA. (Though the elder BC was dead) She thought she was her mother though ( which is kind of ewwww). A very convoluted story.

After COIE, they stuck with the two Canary angle. But the elder Dinah was still alive and the younger version was trained by the JSA. Which is the version you're familiar with.

The Arrow version hits the key marks: Martial artist, Canary Cry and daughter of a crime fighter.
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Old November 4 2013, 06:37 AM   #193
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

5 years back maybe, Black Canary studied/prepared to be the new Lady Shiva and take over the League of Assassins a few years ago in birds of Prey, but I doubt the people in Arrow would know about that.

Black Canary was her own mother after first Crisis.

Before that Black Canary was a refugee from Earth II where the All-Star Squadron was still fighting Hitler in the 1940s.

But following that a little means that Alex Kingston should also be Black Canary.
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Old November 4 2013, 06:56 AM   #194
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Will we see League of Assassins members like Ra's, Talia, Lady Shiva, and Cassandra Cain? But I guess the villain of the season is Brother Blood. So they'll most likely focus on him.

Unlike Smallville, there doesn't seem to be any supernatural or out-of-this-world element on this show that would include superpowered beings, aliens, magic folk, etc. Otherwise, they would've shown a different version of Blood, or a Black Canary with a real sonic scream.
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Old November 4 2013, 08:12 AM   #195
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Welllll.... not yet anyway. Blood was trying to do something with that serum, and don't forget about the deformed skeletons.
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