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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 21 2013, 07:43 PM   #61
Gaith
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Re: STID: The Ethics of the Ending

^ Presumably he knows too many Starfleet secrets to just be handed over in such a manner.

... But I don't care how brilliant you and your buddies are, if you're starting out from scratch on a deserted planet, even if you do know how to build spaceships and can preserve that knowledge, it'd still take generations and generations to create a population large enough to build the necessary foundries, factories, mines and computers necessary to make a ship. Based on what we saw of augments on Enterprise, that level of cooperation would be extremely difficult for Khan and his pals. If their descendants ever did succeed in rebuilding space flight, they'd almost certainly be an entirely different race from the one originally marooned.
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Old October 21 2013, 08:12 PM   #62
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Re: STID: The Ethics of the Ending

"If their descendants ever did succeed in rebuilding space flight, they'd almost certainly be an entirely different race from the one originally marooned."

That might well be for the best.
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Old October 24 2013, 03:25 PM   #63
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Re: STID: The Ethics of the Ending

Gaith wrote: View Post
If their descendants ever did succeed in rebuilding space flight, they'd almost certainly be an entirely different race from the one originally marooned.
And if STID tells us anything, it's that it doesn't take very long to make them an entirely different race!
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Old October 26 2013, 09:47 PM   #64
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Re: STID: The Ethics of the Ending

Smellmet wrote: View Post
I guess has Khan had '5 times the strength' of humans it's reasonable to assume he's x5 with everything else too, so a fifth of the time? Whatever that is...
And which his magic blood, did Khan even have a "life span." Immortality.

From the start of the industrial revolution until the landing on the moon it was two centuries, Khan and his people (and their growing population of children) might reach that level of technology in a single century. From the moon landing until Cochrane's warp flight it was one century, Khan might cut that by two-thirds.

By "post-Nemesis" Khan is free and could have a fleet of starships.

And of course his savagery.

Gaith wrote: View Post
... the future Starfleet/UFP does not execute prisoners ...
What could possibly make you think so?

This is entirely separate alternate universe, a decade before the prime universe only had one death penalty offense on the books. Once the list of his offense was read (in a secret Starfleet court) they'd be executing Khan by phaser right there in the court room.


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Old October 26 2013, 09:51 PM   #65
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Re: STID: The Ethics of the Ending

^ The branching point between the two timelines only happened a quarter-century before STID took place. That's not really enough time for a huge change to happen in Federation/Starfleet law. Since the reason for the branched Abrams timeline (remember, prior to 2233, it did not exist) is due to Nero and the Narada, then logically any differences between the two timelines can be attributed TO those things. Would Nero or his ship be cause for Starfleet to adopt any additional death penalty offenses? I doubt it. Therefore, there can't be any more death penalty offenses in the Abrams timeline than in the old.

So there.

(actually, it might even be that the Abrams timeline has no death penalty AT ALL. Seems obvious that Pike has never visited Talos IV, for example. So unless someone else has, then no one has ever met the Talosians of this timeline - and therefore Starfleet would have no reason to have ANY death penalty.)
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Old October 26 2013, 11:10 PM   #66
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Re: STID: The Ethics of the Ending

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
^ But it did come up again, as recently as "Measure of a Man".



But like I said, Ceti Alpha V had absolutely no technological base. It was basically just an empty wasteland, and that was even before its neighbor exploded. There would be nothing - ever - out of which Khan COULD have built a starship.
Not Khan, but his descendents two or three generations down the line would have built some pretty bitchin ones.
Out of WHAT? If you took Khan's people and stuck them in the middle of a forest or a meadow, what could they possibly use to make a starship? They could make a house, but that'd be it, really.
Among the "contents of these cargo bays" would be some modern tools and equipment ("modern" in the 23rd century context, make of that what you will). So if they could build a house, they could build a workshop, possibly equipped with a furnace to help forge even better tools.

More than enough to bootstrap your way to spaceflight capability, if you're making it a priority. Seventy five years later, Khan's people would be developing their equivalent of the Phoenix.
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Old October 27 2013, 12:29 PM   #67
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Re: STID: The Ethics of the Ending

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
then logically any differences between the two timelines can be attributed TO those things. Would Nero or his ship be cause for Starfleet to adopt any additional death penalty offenses?
It might not be a case of adding death penalties, but when did they reduce to one? At the time period of Darkness they might still have a dozen of offenses that carry the death sentence.

and therefore Starfleet would have no reason to have ANY death penalty
In The Menagerie, when Mendez said; "And to do so [visit Talos Four] is the only death penalty left on our books. Only Fleet Command knows why," this to me said that that particular death penalty was internally Starfleet's, and not the Federation's in general.

In the prime universe, the Federation could have had a bountiful number in death penalties in their civilian courts.


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Old November 4 2013, 12:31 AM   #68
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Re: STID: The Ethics of the Ending

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
By "post-Nemesis" Khan is free and could have a fleet of starships.

And of course his savagery.

Gaith wrote: View Post
... the future Starfleet/UFP does not execute prisoners ...
What could possibly make you think so?

This is entirely separate alternate universe, a decade before the prime universe only had one death penalty offense on the books. Once the list of his offense was read (in a secret Starfleet court) they'd be executing Khan by phaser right there in the court room.


Quite right. Indeed, now that Pike is dead, the Talos IV affair never appears to have happened, at least to Chris Pike.

Doesn't mean it can't happen to Kirk and Spock.
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Last edited by M'Sharak; November 4 2013 at 02:27 AM. Reason: to replace missing quote tag and give correct attribution
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