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Old November 2 2013, 05:11 PM   #31
JD
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Re: Dracula - NBC

It is still a little slower moving than I expected, but I'm still enjoying it after two episodes.
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Old November 2 2013, 08:34 PM   #32
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
It seemed like a mix of Dracula and the Great Gatsby.
The Great Batsby?
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Old November 3 2013, 09:53 AM   #33
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Episode two changed everything.

Dracula is the good guy?

Now, that's a little frakked up!
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Old November 3 2013, 01:55 PM   #34
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Dracula is the good guy?

Now, that's a little frakked up!
When I read some of Fred Saberhagen's Dracula novels, that was the hardest thing to wrap my head around -- Dracula was the hero in these books.

I think what's going on here is different, though. Right now, by default, Dracula feels like the hero of the story. Dracula is the story's only sympathetic, active character. (Mina is a borderline case at this point.) I expect that will change in the next two or three weeks as other characters come to the fore.

And I didn't agree with it at first, but, yes, I see The Great Gatsby comparisons.
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Old November 3 2013, 02:40 PM   #35
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Except if Jonathan and Mina are meant to be the real protagonists, it's a fault of the casting that they're played by two of the least interesting performers.
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Old November 3 2013, 03:21 PM   #36
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Re: Dracula - NBC

A couple of observations:

1) Dracula may appear to be playing a more heroic role, at least in his opposition to the evil oil barons, but he's still not above murdering some poor hatcheck girl now and then . . ..

2) What sort of kick-ass vampire hunter is Lady Jayne if she can't even tell when she's sleeping with one? (I guess there are no mirrors in her boudoir?)
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Old November 3 2013, 04:38 PM   #37
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Whatever VanHelsing is doing to him is effecting his pallor and attitude.

It's a very good disguise.

Besides most Americans seem like 900 year old serial killers to the English.
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Old November 3 2013, 05:26 PM   #38
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Christopher wrote: View Post
Except if Jonathan and Mina are meant to be the real protagonists, it's a fault of the casting that they're played by two of the least interesting performers.
Really? I haven't had issues with either thus far. Jonathan has been suitably milquetoast, and Mina finding her inner confidence in the second episode worked for me. These characters don't require subtle performances.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
A couple of observations:

1) Dracula may appear to be playing a more heroic role, at least in his opposition to the evil oil barons, but he's still not above murdering some poor hatcheck girl now and then ....
That's a little bothersome. Stoker's Dracula was markedly subtler with his feedings than that, at least until the point where people like Van Helsing and Seward had caught on to what he was doing.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
2) What sort of kick-ass vampire hunter is Lady Jayne if she can't even tell when she's sleeping with one? (I guess there are no mirrors in her boudoir?)
Perhaps that's a trope they're ignoring for this series. It's a trope that never made any sense to me.

I'm not really sure what to think of Jayne just yet. I feel like her overconfidence is going to get the best of her, and I'm not entirely sure if Dracula knows that she's the Order's chief vampire hunter. (Though after the end of episode two, he should know that now.)
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Old November 3 2013, 06:36 PM   #39
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Speaking of tropes . . . .

It dawns on me that we have yet to see Dracula transform into a bat. No real surprise there; the whole man-to-bat thing, which was once a staple of old Dracula movies, has been largely discarded by vampire fiction, both in print and onscreen, since at least the eighties. Is it that the bat thing is now seen as campy or kitschy or (God forbid!) "unrealistic," invoking memories of phony-looking rubber bats on wires?

The irony, of course, is that modern CGI would actually making such transformations more convincing than ever before . . . .
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Old November 3 2013, 06:42 PM   #40
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Except if Jonathan and Mina are meant to be the real protagonists, it's a fault of the casting that they're played by two of the least interesting performers.
Really? I haven't had issues with either thus far. Jonathan has been suitably milquetoast, and Mina finding her inner confidence in the second episode worked for me. These characters don't require subtle performances.
Well, I've only seen the first episode so far, but I found Jonathan boring and his accent the least convincing of all the fake accents in the show. As for Jessica De Gouw, I'm judging mainly based on her performances as the Huntress in Arrow, which I found underwhelming. (Plus she's not nearly as hot as Katie McGrath. I prefer it when Mina is more attractive than Lucie.)


Greg Cox wrote: View Post
2) What sort of kick-ass vampire hunter is Lady Jayne if she can't even tell when she's sleeping with one? (I guess there are no mirrors in her boudoir?)
Perhaps that's a trope they're ignoring for this series. It's a trope that never made any sense to me.
It's an impossibility from a physical standpoint, of course. All a mirror does is change the direction of the light that's already there, so if you can see something directly, you could also see it in a mirror.

The basis of the myth, though, is that silver rejects evil (according to folklore, a power granted to the metal as a sort of compensation/redemption for having been the coin in which Judas was paid to betray Jesus), and so silvered mirrors don't show the image of evil creatures like vampires. Much vampire fiction ignores this by having vampires also fail to reflect in water or other types of reflective surfaces, or by having them be invisible to film and video. Well, I guess that makes sense for film, since it has silver nitrate in it, but not so much for video.

(By the way, the silver thing is also why breaking a mirror is bad luck -- and, of course, why silver bullets kill werewolves.)

I think Stoker's Dracula lacked a reflection, but I'm not sure. There are a lot of familiar vampire tropes that were added after that book. For instance, the trope of sunlight burning vampires to ash began with the movie Nosferatu; Stoker's Dracula wasn't fond of daylight, but could survive it.

This show does something that Buffy/Angel also did and that I find ridiculous: having vampires be harmed only by direct sunlight rather than reflected sunlight. For instance, in episode 1, Dracula was burned if the sunbeam touched his skin directly, but he could be just inches away from it and be fine. I know from personal experience how little sense that makes. I once had a hematoporphyrin dye treatment as part of a melanoma therapy, and it basically gave me a temporary case of porphyria, the condition that's often considered the basis for vampire myths. I was rendered hypersensitive to sunlight and needed to avoid not only direct sunlight, but sunlit rooms in general, because the reflected/scattered light could still burn my skin. We had to cover the windows in the house, and I had to wear a hat and scarf indoors when I went back to school. (No, I didn't pretend to be the Shadow. I did get an "Indiana Jones Authentic Hat," though. I think I inadvertently started a minor fashion trend at my school.)
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Old November 3 2013, 07:08 PM   #41
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Re: Dracula - NBC

As I recall, the mirror thing is in the book. Dracula comes up behind Jonathan when he's shaving and Jonathan is shocked to see that Dracula has no reflection in the mirror.

I think the mirror thing also had to do with the fact that vampires supposedly lacked souls, which doesn't really follow logically, but since when were superstitions logical?

As for Lucy being more attractive than Mina . . . well, in the book, Lucy was the one who had three suitors competing for her hand in marriage. And the one whom Dracula went after first.

Lucy was always the prettier, flashier one. Mina was the smart, sensible one.
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Old November 3 2013, 07:58 PM   #42
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Lucy was always the prettier, flashier one. Mina was the smart, sensible one.
Well, back in college I had a really gorgeous theater-major friend who played Mina in an original musical, so maybe that colors my perceptions. Perhaps she was cast in the wrong role? But it was the lead role of the play, so I'm not going to complain.

Anyway, even if Mina's not supposed to be as flashy, at least she should be appealing as a person, and De Gouw doesn't really achieve that for me, not from what I've seen so far, anyway.
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Old November 3 2013, 07:59 PM   #43
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Re: Dracula - NBC

And they you wonder if inanimate objects like pencils have souls.

I mean they clearly always have a reflection, so pencils must have souls.

What does a wayward pencil have to do to be damned to hell?
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Old November 3 2013, 08:27 PM   #44
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Christopher wrote: View Post
Anyway, even if Mina's not supposed to be as flashy, at least she should be appealing as a person, and De Gouw doesn't really achieve that for me, not from what I've seen so far, anyway.
You said you've only seen the first episode. Mina has a nice role -- and some meaty scenes -- in the second.
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Old November 3 2013, 10:02 PM   #45
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Re: Dracula - NBC

^I also said I've seen De Gouw in Arrow and was unimpressed. And I freely admit that I don't have enough information to know for certain whether she'll work in the role, and I'll be willing to have my mind changed if I decide to continue watching (something I haven't really felt an urgent need to do so far). But at the moment, I'm unconvinced.
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