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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old October 31 2013, 06:51 AM   #31
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

Compton's lucky the Scalosian water only hyper-accelerated him. It might have contained fluoride.

You know when fluoridation first began? Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.
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Old October 31 2013, 09:47 AM   #32
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

Metryq wrote: View Post
But those eraser-head helmets were just too goofy to accept. They block the user's vision on the sides, while leaving the "view" out the back wide open. (Why?)
Yeah, the actors were always turning their whole bodies sideways to look at anything. Just like the Bridge, with it's awkward knee-level railing and Spock's bend-over-to-see-in hooded viewer, the spacesuits were nifty-looking but ergonomically terrible.

We know from Ralph Senensky's blog that Bill Theiss delivered the spacesuits a full half-day later than they were needed. Theiss must have lost a lot of time that week casting about desperately for an affordable yet "way beyond today" helmet design that he could build four of.
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Old November 1 2013, 11:04 AM   #33
Robert Comsol
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

Metryq wrote: View Post
The "Tholian Web" spacesuits looked interesting, with the red/blue "circulatory system" running over the surface. But those eraser-head helmets were just too goofy to accept. They block the user's vision on the sides, while leaving the "view" out the back wide open. (Why?)
How about the advantages of such a helmet design? During extra-vehicular activity the TOS suit allows the user to lift his head and see what's above him with ease.
Maybe the open space at the back is rather a "view-in" for fellow astronauts. In case of a communication problem a guy behind could just say "move your head so I can see that everything is okay".

Unlike TMP the general idea seemed to be to have a space suit that looked so futuristic that it could almost pass as believable. Given the time and budget restraints I think the outcome was impressive.

Bob
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Old November 1 2013, 02:38 PM   #34
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

Fascinating, how my question about Tormolen's behaviour towards dead bodies lead to a discussion about the spacesuits of TOS.

Personally, I always understood those suits from "The Naked Time" as hermetically sealed, fully-functional spacesuit. TOS being what it is, I just assumed as a viewer I had to take what I saw with a grain of salt. The whole TOS-as-a-theatrical-representation-of-"real"-events idea and all that. But sure, the purpose of those suits could very well be the mere protection from the cold environment, in which case they wouldn't seem as stupid. Whatever is true, I always liked their design.

Going back to my original question for a second, do you guys think the actor playing Tormolen was actually directed to rest his glove on the dead man's head? Or was it simply an oversight of those working on the set? But how could it be?
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Old November 1 2013, 03:13 PM   #35
BillJ
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

M wrote: View Post

Personally, I always understood those suits from "The Naked Time" as hermetically sealed, fully-functional spacesuit. TOS being what it is, I just assumed as a viewer I had to take what I saw with a grain of salt. The whole TOS-as-a-theatrical-representation-of-"real"-events idea and all that. But sure, the purpose of those suits could very well be the mere protection from the cold environment, in which case they wouldn't seem as stupid. Whatever is true, I always liked their design.
I think Ensign Joe being able to slip off a glove and put it under his hood with ease pretty much blows the illusion of it being a fully-functional spacesuit. At least for me it did.
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Old November 1 2013, 07:30 PM   #36
Jonas Grumby
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

M wrote: View Post
Going back to my original question for a second, do you guys think the actor playing Tormolen was actually directed to rest his glove on the dead man's head? Or was it simply an oversight of those working on the set? But how could it be?
I don't know whose original idea it was, but I'm sure it was done deliberately. I've always thought Tormolen's cavalier and dispassionate behavior during the landing party scenes contrasted nicely with his hand-wringing angst after being infected by the pathogen.
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Old November 1 2013, 07:50 PM   #37
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

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In "These Are the Voyages," Cushman reports that the actor playing Joe told him, "I questioned Marc Daniels [the director] about whether a Star Fleet officer who probably had at least a PhD in engineering would be stupid enough to take his glove off in that situation. He said, 'Of course not. But if you don't do it, we don't have a show.'"
When people use that one on me, my response is always, "If your story (or show) requires your characters to act like idiots, you already don't have much of a story."
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Old November 1 2013, 08:35 PM   #38
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

If Star Trek hadn't built their own suits, they probably would have had to rent these old costumes used in Destination Moon. They were already 15 years old by ST's time and had been seen in several shows and movies since.

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Old November 1 2013, 08:38 PM   #39
Jonas Grumby
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

On first viewing, I assumed the suits were supposed to be full-fledged environmental isolation suits...and extraordinarily badly realized ones, at that.

But I've since come to believe that they are, in fact, merely cold weather gear. There is evidence in the episode to support this, and even, apparently, notation of such in the script, itself.

I think the producers erred in trying to make the suits so "futuristic." In a scene where the concept of contamination plays such a large role, it's easy to make the wrong assumption about the suits.

I think I would have designed something a lot more visually evocative of cold weather gear. Or, maybe I'd just have one the characters say, "Hey, Joe, better put that glove back on! That's a good way to get frostbite and lose a finger, buddy!"
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Old November 1 2013, 09:36 PM   #40
Corylea
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
Corylea wrote: View Post
In "These Are the Voyages," Cushman reports that the actor playing Joe told him, "I questioned Marc Daniels [the director] about whether a Star Fleet officer who probably had at least a PhD in engineering would be stupid enough to take his glove off in that situation. He said, 'Of course not. But if you don't do it, we don't have a show.'"
When people use that one on me, my response is always, "If your story (or show) requires your characters to act like idiots, you already don't have much of a story."
Well, but four things:

1. The focus of story is really about what happens after the Psi 2000 virus makes it to the ship; how it gets to the ship is just hand-waving. And with only 50 minutes to play with, they have to get it to the ship quickly, without spending a whole lot of time on how.

2. The creative team was writing this stuff blindingly fast, often tearing the pages out of the typewriter and giving them to the actors ten minutes before they were supposed to say those lines. Working at that pace, it's a wonder their stuff held together at all. (And I'm always amazed that the actors managed to learn their lines under such conditions, especially Shatner, who usually had the longest speeches, and Nimoy, who usually had big paragraphs of exposition that were full of details that just had to be memorized.)

3. Writers, actors, directors, and producers typically get little or no scientific training, so the people who made this stuff usually know a lot less about how their characters would and should behave than the typical Star Trek FAN does. My husband and I both have scientific training, and we both often bang our heads against the wall and say, "But Spock wouldn't SAY that, because scientists don't behave that way!" Then we remind ourselves that most writers don't know this stuff.

4. The 60's were a very different time. We've had a lot of shows that delve into the minutia of how things get done in the intervening years (e.g., the CSI shows), but at the time, hand-waving on the details was a lot more common.
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Old November 2 2013, 05:17 AM   #41
Grant
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

Hollywood Werewolf wrote: View Post
Metryq wrote: View Post
I mean, he compromises his isolation suit, notices the stink on his hand, then doesn't say anything about the contamination?
I figured the shower-curtain suits were just to provide heat, not protection against environmental hazards. For one thing, the hoods are completely open at the bottom.

Correct, these were 'futuristic' suits against the cold--not isolation suits. Even 1960s audience's could clearly see they were wide open at the bottom.

Before they beamed down they must have scanned the structure and seen the temp was way off. They didn't scan it and assume there was a pathogen loose.
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Old November 2 2013, 11:17 AM   #42
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

Grant wrote: View Post
Even 1960s audience's could clearly see they were wide open at the bottom.
I already addressed that when I compared these suits to the spacesuits seen in "Tholian Web." If the script said cold weather gear, then the costuming department shouldn't have produced "salt shakers" that would not be recognized as such by a 1960s audience.

Granted, the suits were not sealed shut and taped against biological contamination, but they do look like some kind of isolation gear, like radiation suits. Considering the contamination seen right in the teaser, it is natural for a viewer to think the exotic attire was meant as iso-suits. If the costumers had gone with heavy coats (like those seen in THE WRATH OF KHAN), then the audience wouldn't have surmised that Tormolen was a pinhead.

There is also Spock's line, "Be certain we expose ourselves to nothing."
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Old November 3 2013, 03:59 AM   #43
Grant
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

Metryq wrote: View Post
Grant wrote: View Post
Even 1960s audience's could clearly see they were wide open at the bottom.
I already addressed that when I compared these suits to the spacesuits seen in "Tholian Web." If the script said cold weather gear, then the costuming department shouldn't have produced "salt shakers" that would not be recognized as such by a 1960s audience.

Granted, the suits were not sealed shut and taped against biological contamination, but they do look like some kind of isolation gear, like radiation suits. Considering the contamination seen right in the teaser, it is natural for a viewer to think the exotic attire was meant as iso-suits. If the costumers had gone with heavy coats (like those seen in THE WRATH OF KHAN), then the audience wouldn't have surmised that Tormolen was a pinhead.

There is also Spock's line, "Be certain we expose ourselves to nothing."

I didn't read every post, but at any rate at the point where he reaches his hand up under the hood to his mouth to warm it with his breath--I knew it wasn't an 'isolation suit' even when I was a kid.

You are right they could have done a better job at making clear that they were suits against the cold and not biohazard suits, but the script is clear so the intent made sense but the execution was off.
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Old November 3 2013, 04:05 AM   #44
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

All Thiess would have had to do was put some fake fur trim on them, and we likely would have realized they were cold weather suits. But when the costumes are apparently shower curtain originals (much like the Elasian guards' placemat "armor" costumes), most of the money was probably spent on spray foam "ice" for the planet set.

That, and a significantly large cast of extras with speaking parts.
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Old November 3 2013, 04:12 AM   #45
Grant
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Re: Weird Thing in "The Naked Time"

Melakon wrote: View Post
All Thiess would have had to do was put some fake fur trim on them, and we likely would have realized they were cold weather suits. But when the costumes are apparently shower curtain originals (much like the Elasian guards' placemat "armor" costumes), most of the money was probably spent on spray foam "ice" for the planet set.

That, and a significantly large cast of extras with speaking parts.
That's another thing I hadn't really thought of too much.....

If the heat is turned off in the outpost---would that cause the thick 'ice' to form over everything?

I know they were trying to give the imprssion of cold, but could that actually happen or was it just another goof up--like the obvious manaquin used as a woman.

And yes it looked like a mannequin to me on my old small TV set.
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