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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old October 16 2013, 09:03 AM   #1156
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Quite beautiful. I was always curious about something, I heard that while TOS was shot with 50 ISO, it was later shot with 100 ISO. I always guessed it was the third season that did the latter, because it stuck me during a viewing of "The Enterprise Incident" that the shadows didn't quite look as strong as earlier episodes. I've never had this confirmed, because I can't seem to find any reliable info about it. Would you know anything?
It would definitely have to be the 3rd Season. 5251 (50T) was discontinued in 1968 and replaced with 5254 (100T). The arrival of 5254 was a kind of watershed moment for cinema, actually. After that point, films began to experiment more and more with naturalistic low-light shooting. The faster speed really emboldened directors and cinematographers. Just look at some of the films of the 1970s like "prince of darkness" Gordon Willis' exceptional work in Coppola's The Godfather, Part I & II, John Alcott's amazing candelight scenes in Kubrick's Barry Lyndon or Michael Chapman's seedy New York nighttime scenes in Scorsese's Taxi Driver.

From what I recall, director/cinematographer Haskell Wexler got some of the first batch of 5254 for use filming the roller derby sequence in Medium Cool. If you're not familiar with the film, Medium Cool was shot in a vérité documentary style in real locations, so studio lights were out of the question. Anyway, it turned out that actor Robert Forster's father worked at Eastman Kodak and he told Wexler about a new color negative stock they had made which was faster than any film currently on the market, i.e. 5254. This was in late summer, 1968, I believe. Late August, something like that. (There's an ultra-comprehensive 6-hour making of the film here in four parts, if you're brave enough to sift through the footage and find exactly when they shot that particular sequence.)

Now, as for TOS, the last episode of Season 2, "Assignment: Earth," was filmed between January 2 and January 10, 1968 according to Memory Alpha, so that's off the table. The first episode of Season Three, "Spectre of the Gun," began filming on May 23, 1968. "The Enterprise Incident" began filming on June 19, a bit too early for this stock to be available to a TV show that was already deep into production at that point. It's possible, but not very likely.

However, we know that the show's primary DP, Jerry Finnerman, left to shoot a feature after "The Empath" wrapped on Friday, August 2nd, 1968 and Al Francis took over starting with "The Tholian Web," which started on the following Monday, August 5th. I suppose it's possible that this is when the film stock changed. On the other hand, it's also possible that the production had already bought all the 50T 5251 they would need to finish the series. "Turnabout Intruder" began filming on the last day of 1968. StarTrekHistory.com claims that "Whom Gods Destroy" was filmed on 5254 100T stock in early October, 1968. So, if that claim is true, my guess would be somewhere between "The Tholian Web" and "Whom Gods Destroy," if at all.
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Old October 16 2013, 07:54 PM   #1157
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Agreed about the faster stock really giving cinematographers a new way of telling a story. It worked greatly for those films, and I gotta throw a shout out to Willis for his work on MANHATTAN. I think it's too bad that faster stock took over so much that the natural lighting style is pretty much a standard in films, unless you hire someone who knows how to emulate the old look of movies and that can be tricky, especially if you want those shadows. That's why I admire even Jonathan West, who actually took notes from Finnerman on how to get the lighting right and did an admirable job emulating the look of TOS for "Trials and Tribble-ations".

Thanks again for all that info. I've been doing photography as a hobby for awhile, but I never delved into filmmaking so I'm still learning the technical side of things on that medium. I don't think I'll ever try that out, but I still find it fascinating.
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Old October 27 2013, 02:58 PM   #1158
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

If you're not aware of them, be sure to check out our series of YouTube videos comparing the SD and HD versions of TNG Season 3.

The latest one is here, from "Ménage à Troi": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUEMGrhbrqQ
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Old October 29 2013, 08:34 AM   #1159
MakeshiftPython
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

The red on those uniforms! The color correction has always been the main thing I looked forward to in these HD remasters. Where TOS looked nicely saturated, TNG felt flat and video-like. It's nice to see the show with proper color timing.
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Old October 29 2013, 01:32 PM   #1160
trekker670
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
The red on those uniforms! The color correction has always been the main thing I looked forward to in these HD remasters. Where TOS looked nicely saturated, TNG felt flat and video-like. It's nice to see the show with proper color timing.
See, I'm actually very impressed with the color upgrades and the vibrancy of the uniforms, but the actual uniforms are a much deeper, almost a purple-ish burgundy, so the remastering is actually changing that. It's always been the case that the red uniforms looked different when filmed (similar to the TOS gold/green uniform) but the remastering has made it even more different.

As an aside, this is such a problem that often times when the uniforms are replicated the blue and gold use what used originally, but the red uses a color that's adjusted to reflect what's seen on screen rather than what was used on set.
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Old October 29 2013, 02:18 PM   #1161
Savage Dragon
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Perhaps the uniforms were made that way on purpose knowing how they would look on film, much in the same way the Enterprise was painted in blues and greens knowing that it would look different on screen.
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Old October 31 2013, 02:41 AM   #1162
Dick_Valentine
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I've never seen a fan uniform that looks even half as good as what is seen on screen anyway, so I guess that point is moot

I guess that's the difference between a merchandising company looking to make a quick buck and a fully budgeted costume department

Even the ones used on fan videos such as Hidden Frontier don't come up to scratch, more's the pity.
It takes more than a few picard maneuvers to pull them off
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Old November 1 2013, 07:27 PM   #1163
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
I've never seen a fan uniform that looks even half as good as what is seen on screen anyway, so I guess that point is moot

I guess that's the difference between a merchandising company looking to make a quick buck and a fully budgeted costume department

Even the ones used on fan videos such as Hidden Frontier don't come up to scratch, more's the pity.
It takes more than a few picard maneuvers to pull them off
What about the uniforms made by Anovos? They are supposed to be screen accurate. For the price, I sure hope they are.
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Old November 1 2013, 09:28 PM   #1164
trekker670
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

NewHorizon wrote: View Post
Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
I've never seen a fan uniform that looks even half as good as what is seen on screen anyway, so I guess that point is moot

I guess that's the difference between a merchandising company looking to make a quick buck and a fully budgeted costume department

Even the ones used on fan videos such as Hidden Frontier don't come up to scratch, more's the pity.
It takes more than a few picard maneuvers to pull them off
What about the uniforms made by Anovos? They are supposed to be screen accurate. For the price, I sure hope they are.
I thought about posting the same thing yesterday, but I believe the key part of his post is fan uniform, which to me meant a cheap halloween costume (like those made by rubies, or made cheaply by hand). I think it's fair to consider the Anovos and some of the expensive fan made uniforms are more replicas than costumes.

Similar to comparing the old Playmates toys to the work of QMx or some of the high quality fan props.
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Old November 6 2013, 03:06 AM   #1165
Dick_Valentine
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

trekker670 wrote: View Post
NewHorizon wrote: View Post
Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
I've never seen a fan uniform that looks even half as good as what is seen on screen anyway, so I guess that point is moot

I guess that's the difference between a merchandising company looking to make a quick buck and a fully budgeted costume department

Even the ones used on fan videos such as Hidden Frontier don't come up to scratch, more's the pity.
It takes more than a few picard maneuvers to pull them off
What about the uniforms made by Anovos? They are supposed to be screen accurate. For the price, I sure hope they are.
I thought about posting the same thing yesterday, but I believe the key part of his post is fan uniform, which to me meant a cheap halloween costume (like those made by rubies, or made cheaply by hand). I think it's fair to consider the Anovos and some of the expensive fan made uniforms are more replicas than costumes.

Similar to comparing the old Playmates toys to the work of QMx or some of the high quality fan props.
Well, yeah, considering I've never heard of such uniforms, I was just referring to fan videos such as Hidden Frontier or that time the Trek Fan got on the news for going to court in her uniform or the Trek fan who got on the news for making his flat look like the Enterprise bridge etc etc.....
They go to all the effort of doing something creative with their fandom then fall at the first hurdle of having a bad looking uniform that ruins the effect.

But that's the difference between your local costume shop and a fully budgeted costuming department of a TV show or movie, I guess.
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Old November 9 2013, 05:26 PM   #1166
MakeshiftPython
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Having learned of TOS updating the film stock in S3, has it ever been revealed what film stock TNG used? I only know that the first three seasons had different film stock for each according to TrekCore, and TNG had used 500 speed for the most part, but I could never find which film stock was used.
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Old November 9 2013, 11:34 PM   #1167
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Having learned of TOS updating the film stock in S3, has it ever been revealed what film stock TNG used? I only know that the first three seasons had different film stock for each according to TrekCore, and TNG had used 500 speed for the most part, but I could never find which film stock was used.
TNG was shot primarily on 5294 (400T), 5295 (400T) and 5296 (500T). They started using 5296 in Season Three and it was used until the end of the show.
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Old November 10 2013, 12:36 AM   #1168
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

That does explain a lot, especially in the case of S3 other than a change in DOP, naturally going from 400 to 500 meant different use of lighting other than just the style Rush brought with him. Thanks again.
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Old November 17 2013, 10:57 PM   #1169
Ensign Thomas
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featurette "The Trek Not Taken"

Can anyone share 15-minute featurette "The Trek Not Taken" that was released on German season 4 and US Best Buy Season 3 TNG Blu-ray set? I've seen some images and excerpts and they look amazing. Please send me a message if you can't post a link. I'd be glad to return the favour with some "gems" in my collection. Thank you!
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Old December 3 2013, 04:21 AM   #1170
Rory1080p
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

my mum just asked me to list the 3 things for £40 or so that I would like as birthday and xmas presents for this year

naturally I have gone for seasons 3, 4 and 5 of TNG on blu-ray!
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