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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old November 1 2013, 03:14 PM   #31
mb22
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

Christopher wrote: View Post
^I recall that somebody (Harvey?) actually posted the de Forrest notes about the inaccuracies in "Space Seed" somewhere on this BBS just a month or two ago. Too bad the producers ignored them.
http://startrekfactcheck.blogspot.co...pace-seed.html

Page 13, Scene 27

A Sikh probably. A 'Sikh' is a member of the Sikh religion, not a racial type, any more than a Roman Catholic is a racial type. They are distinguish-able physically only because one of the tenets of their religion is that men do not shave or cut their hair.

Page 38, Scene 59:

Sibahl Khan Noonien – This name is not Sikh or Indian in form. 'Khan' is a Mongol title which has found its way into some Muslim names in India and Pakistan. For proper name suggest: Govind Bahadur Singh. All Sikhs use the name Singh after their own sir name.
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Old November 1 2013, 03:23 PM   #32
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

mb22 wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
^I recall that somebody (Harvey?) actually posted the de Forrest notes about the inaccuracies in "Space Seed" somewhere on this BBS just a month or two ago. Too bad the producers ignored them.
http://startrekfactcheck.blogspot.co...pace-seed.html

Page 13, Scene 27

A Sikh probably. A 'Sikh' is a member of the Sikh religion, not a racial type, any more than a Roman Catholic is a racial type. They are distinguish-able physically only because one of the tenets of their religion is that men do not shave or cut their hair.
Catholics as a part of their religion are not allowed to use birth control. Yet at my local Catholic Church no one has 12 children.
I know about 5 Catholic people who have been married twice without being excommunicated. I don't know personally any Sikh who have cut their hair though but sometimes you have to adjust your religious beliefs to live in the 'real world' unless you are very lucky.
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Old November 1 2013, 03:27 PM   #33
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

^Yes, but the point is that Marla claimed to recognize Khan as a Sikh on sight, knowing absolutely nothing about the man but what he looked like. And since there was nothing about his appearance that suggested that he followed the Sikh religion, this was impossible.

The only way to rationalize it is to assume that Marla recognized Khan on sight and lied about it. That's the only way she could possibly have known that he was a Sikh.
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Old November 2 2013, 04:56 AM   #34
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

That's always been my take on it. And I still call nitpicking, with Marla recognizing Khan one of the reasons why. If Khan were raised a Sikh, but had thrown off all the trappings of his childhood religion by the time he was an adult, or at least by the time he ruled a quarter of the Earth, he wouldn't very well have been expressing any of those trappings once in the company of the Enterprise crew. Montalban played a very aggressive, arrogant character to the hilt, and that was what Khan was.
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Old November 2 2013, 02:56 PM   #35
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

^Yes, but one more time: It's not about whether it's plausible that a Sikh would've chosen to cast off the trappings. It is entirely and exclusively about whether Marla would have recognized him as a Sikh based on his appearance alone.
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Old November 2 2013, 03:51 PM   #36
TOSalltheway
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

I humbly stand corrected. I should clarify that I meant he pulled over the role of Khan.
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Old November 2 2013, 03:56 PM   #37
Christopher
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

^Sure, he pulled off playing Khan. He did not remotely pull off playing "a Sikh from India." That's the point. Name and makeup aside, there was nothing distinctly ethnic about the character.
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Old November 2 2013, 04:24 PM   #38
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

Christopher wrote: View Post
Not only was that par for the course in the '60s and '70s, it still happens from time to time today.

the next star of Doctor Who is Peter Capaldi, who's played two previous roles in the franchise -- and former companions Freema Agyeman and Karen Gillan had also played other guest characters not long before.
I didn't care for Capaldi's character in the Torchwood episode at all and I thought he was just average in Fires of Pompeii. Those are the only 2 times I saw him so I wasn't thrilled when he was chosen as the next Doctor. I think a cool twist would be for them to remake Fires of Pompeii where it's revealed that Capaldi's role is really that of the 12th Doctor and for some reason he had to "cross his own timeline" and interact with his former self.

Freema Agyeman's previous character was explained as being her cousin. Yeah, a bit of a cop out but at least they addressed it instead of completely ignoring it.

Karen Gillan was hidden in makeup and I had no clue that she had previously played in an episode. Even going back and re-watching it, she wasn't instantly recognizable.

Back to Trek - as others have mentioned, Mark Lenard's role as the Romulan Commander and also Spock's father really had me confused. I initially wondered what the heck Spock's father was doing on the Romulan ship and the fact that Spock and the rest of the crew showed surprise when seeing him only reinforced my misunderstanding. Why choose the same actor, put him in the same makeup (Romulans looked just like Vulcans) and have both characters in a strong role was a strange choice in my opinion.
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Old November 2 2013, 04:31 PM   #39
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Catholics as a part of their religion are not allowed to use birth control. Yet at my local Catholic Church no one has 12 children.
My parents were Catholic and I'm one of eight children, so yeah, it does happen (or did happen.)
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Old November 2 2013, 05:13 PM   #40
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

MarsSilence wrote: View Post
I didn't care for Capaldi's character in the Torchwood episode at all...
Wow, I thought he was utterly brilliant and stole the miniseries.


Freema Agyeman's previous character was explained as being her cousin. Yeah, a bit of a cop out but at least they addressed it instead of completely ignoring it.
Well, that was partly because there was virtually no interval between her appearances in the two different roles, aside from the gap between seasons. They did a similar thing when Lalla Ward, who had just appeared as Princess Astra in the season-ending "The Armageddon Factor," was cast as the regenerated Romana in the next season's premiere: it was explained that Romana modeled her regeneration on Astra. But usually there's no attempt to explain it away, for instance, Jeremy Sisto in Law and Order or Lucy Lawless in Hercules (although when they brought back Lawless's first character after she'd been established as Xena, they did mention the resemblance in passing).


Back to Trek - as others have mentioned, Mark Lenard's role as the Romulan Commander and also Spock's father really had me confused. I initially wondered what the heck Spock's father was doing on the Romulan ship and the fact that Spock and the rest of the crew showed surprise when seeing him only reinforced my misunderstanding. Why choose the same actor, put him in the same makeup (Romulans looked just like Vulcans) and have both characters in a strong role was a strange choice in my opinion.
I assume you've since learned that "Balance of Terror" was made nearly a year before "Journey to Babel." And I'd expect the reason they cast him as Sarek was because he'd worked well as a Vulcanlike character before. Recall that Lawrence Montaigne also played both a Romulan (Decius) and a Vulcan (Stonn) even before Lenard was cast as Sarek. And there are other Trek actors who've played multiple characters of the same species: Armin Shimerman and Max Grodenchik had each played two previous Ferengi before getting cast as Quark and Rom, and other actors to play more than one Ferengi included Frank Corsentino and Lee Arenberg. Marc Alaimo played Gul Macet before he was Gul Dukat. Vaughn Armstrong's many roles include three Klingons and two Cardassians, and J.G. Hertzler played two different Klingons, DS9's Martok and ENT's Kolos. (I'm not counting Michael Dorn playing Worf's namesake ancestor.)
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Old November 2 2013, 10:54 PM   #41
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

I recall reading somewhere, maybe in TMOST, that casting director Joe D'Agosta found himself being credited in the industry for very inventive casting -- when the truth was that he was just winging it, and didn't know better! William Campbell himself thought it was marvelous that a guy from the Bronx had a chance to play Trelane, a fop.

D'Agosta often did cast performers against type, for example eternal one-note bad guy Morgan Woodward as Simon Van Gelder, at the very least a complex portrayal. More casting trivia: T'Pau was played by Peter Lorre's ex-wife! My favorite unusual casting was Paul Fix, a verteran of countless Westerns, as Kirk's first chief medical officer. He had a very long career, later turning up on "The Rockford Files."

Belli's casting was unfortunate, but it was just stunt casting, just as Joe Piscopo was placed on TNG.

(Incidentally, it's well known that all Sikhs involved in the Eugenics War were beardless, long-haired Mexicans. That's why Marla and the rest all recognized him as Khan so easily.)
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Old November 9 2013, 12:38 AM   #42
The Old Mixer
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
You can't watch ten episodes of The Rifleman without seeing Richard Anderson. I think they used to alternate him as good guy and bad guy.
According to IMDB, he did six appearances, each as a different character--but two of them were only two episodes apart! Me-TV showed "Miss Bertie" last night, and is currently showing "Flowers by the Door"...Season 3, episodes 14 and 16, respectively!
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Old November 9 2013, 02:57 AM   #43
EnsignHarper
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

jayrath wrote: View Post
I recall reading somewhere, maybe in TMOST, that casting director Joe D'Agosta found himself being credited in the industry for very inventive casting -- when the truth was that he was just winging it, and didn't know better! William Campbell himself thought it was marvelous that a guy from the Bronx had a chance to play Trelane, a fop.

D'Agosta often did cast performers against type, for example eternal one-note bad guy Morgan Woodward as Simon Van Gelder, at the very least a complex portrayal. More casting trivia: T'Pau was played by Peter Lorre's ex-wife! My favorite unusual casting was Paul Fix, a verteran of countless Westerns, as Kirk's first chief medical officer. He had a very long career, later turning up on "The Rockford Files."
Fix - and John Hoyt - were both network choices to play the ship's doctor. Roddenberry wanted Kelley both times, but the network was too conscious of Kelley's history of playing baddies. By the time NBC picked up the show as a series, De had done the Police Story pilot, and had tested very well with the preview audiences, so when it was time to put the show in production, Roddenberry could sell them on him being the doctor - thank God! Grace Lee Whitney had been in that pilot as well, so it was easy to get her for Rand.

One of the interesting casting stories in TATV 1, is how there almost was no James Doohan/Scotty in the series! GR was looking at a pretty bloated cast budget, was looking to eliminate a character! However, Doohan had signed a pretty good deal for WNMHGB, and had a guaranteed option for 5 or 6 of 13, in case of series pickup. So his agent 'reminded' GR and Desilu of the option - and we got Montgomery Scott!
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Old November 9 2013, 03:38 AM   #44
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

jayrath wrote: View Post
. . .stunt casting, just as Joe Piscopo was placed on TNG.
More like a non-stunt. They originally wanted Jerry Lewis, but there was a scheduling conflict because he was doing a different show.
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Old November 10 2013, 04:50 PM   #45
EnsignHarper
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Re: Most interesting casting choice

I lost track of where to quote, but as far as both Lenard and Montaigne are concerned, before Amok Time and Babel, both had been on the shortlist of 'replacement Vulcans' when Nimoy was having his post Season One contract hissy fit.

This business alone should make TATV II worth the price of admission! Not to mention GR's infamous memos to the cast regarding egos.
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