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Old October 30 2013, 09:54 PM   #31
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

That's a wonderful analysis Melakon!
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Old October 30 2013, 09:58 PM   #32
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

Melakon wrote: View Post
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. . .I really liked "Dark Frontier," though I think they could have made it even more dramatic by forcing Seven to witness people being murdered who resisted, also showing more children being assimilated (to relate to Seven since she was assimilated as a child). That might have been powerful. Even showing Seven shed a tear or two over it. Or attempt to take her father with her back to Voyager, then he dies because they're not able to de-borgify him properly. Or have Seven look up to the heavens and yell "QUEEEEEEEEN!" No, I take that last one back.
I'm in the middle of Dark Frontier now. Actually 33:58, about when Seven is begging to go on the mission. I spent about 20 minutes replaying the 4-minute tactical exercise in the holodecks. I've probably watched the episode at least 15 times already since getting it perhaps in early summer, and each time it's like finding something new. It's a bit different than when I usually discover things, as I tend to focus on technical stuff. But this time it was something I realized while listening to the dialogue.

It's a scene with the Doctor in sickbay. At one point Seven angrily refers to her parents as misguided people who endangered their child's life, and she storms out of the room. It's as if she's actually walking out on them. This seems to add a dimension to the often recognized element of Janeway and the Queen battling to be foster mother. With the 5th Act cliffhanger where Seven has to decide whether to go or stay, another element comes into play-- if she goes with Janeway, she might have a chance of forgiving her parents. With the Queen, she has no chance, because she will again lose whatever humanity she'd regained.

Is that making sense, or am I reading too deeply into it?
I always thought that both Janeway and the Borg Queen were trying to mold Seven into their own image. Their approaches were even similar. Janeway says the Borg took her humanity away and she can give it back. The Queen says they took what made her unique away, broke her, and she can be safe again if she comes with them.

I always thought that both were seeing in Seven what they wanted to see, and not what was really there. Seven was literally trapped between two worlds. Half-human and Half-Borg. She had been linked to the hive mind too long for it to be any other way. Even once she regains her humanity she's concerned about efficiency, perfection and so forth. She even has a "spiritual" experience over Omega Particle 010. That Chakotay understood that, is the closest thing I can get to justifying them being together.
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Old October 30 2013, 10:23 PM   #33
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

I don't believe any of the Queen's overtures, thinking she would have said anything to convince Seven to voluntarily return to the fold. All the business about Seven being special, unique, etc., were false promises. It does however, open the question of why Seven wasn't re-assimilated by force.

As for the quest for perfection, a later episode (after letters from Earth are received from one of Seven's Hansen relatives) suggests she was a perfectionist even as a child. She always used to pick out the best strawberries or something, whereas Seven had assumed that quest for perfection was due to her Borg indoctrination.

Still watching Dark Frontier, went to sleep after the post, and just restarted Part 1 again.
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Old October 30 2013, 10:27 PM   #34
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

I never read that far into Aunt Irene's strawberry story. I just heard a story about a little girl pointing out she doesn't like unripened strawberries.
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Old October 31 2013, 11:12 PM   #35
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

One of my favorite Trek scenes ever. How Aunt Irene must have thought on her lovely little niece and her happiness over strawberries, now lost far out in the depths of space.
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Old October 31 2013, 11:30 PM   #36
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

I always figured Aunt Irene was just what Seven needed. The kind old lady he isn't flustered by anything, and has plenty to tell about those questions Seven probably had concerning her parents, herself, what everyone was like and what not. Some people say the scene's out of place in that episode, but I liked it.
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Old November 1 2013, 12:12 AM   #37
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

Why would it be out of place? It's a wonderful moment when 7 sees her own humanity in the face of a real relative on her real home planet.
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Old November 1 2013, 08:26 PM   #38
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
I always thought that both Janeway and the Borg Queen were trying to mold Seven into their own image. Their approaches were even similar. Janeway says the Borg took her humanity away and she can give it back. The Queen says they took what made her unique away, broke her, and she can be safe again if she comes with them.

I always thought that both were seeing in Seven what they wanted to see, and not what was really there. Seven was literally trapped between two worlds. Half-human and Half-Borg. She had been linked to the hive mind too long for it to be any other way. Even once she regains her humanity she's concerned about efficiency, perfection and so forth. She even has a "spiritual" experience over Omega Particle 010. That Chakotay understood that, is the closest thing I can get to justifying them being together.
Totally agree. I'd also toss the Doctor in there. Everyone is trying to make Seven the person they think she should be, rather than helping her become the person she is.

That's why the scene in Survival Instinct with Chakotay stuck out for me. He doesn't tell her what to think, he talks her through the problem, till she comes to her own conclusion that "survival is insufficient."
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Old November 7 2013, 08:19 AM   #39
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

Season 5 continued the quality of Season 4. There were many great episodes this year, but there were also some bad episodes like The Disease.

There was talk about disliking Timeless because Garrett Wang can't carry an episode, and I loved Timeless because I loved Wang's performance. We finally found an emotional Harry Kim, and I wish we had kept some of that in the real Harry Kim.
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Old November 7 2013, 09:44 AM   #40
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

They should have paradoxically changed places and the old Harry replaced the young Harry.
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Old November 7 2013, 03:21 PM   #41
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

teacake wrote: View Post
They should have paradoxically changed places and the old Harry replaced the young Harry.
That would have been amazing.
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Old November 7 2013, 06:56 PM   #42
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

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They should have paradoxically changed places and the old Harry replaced the young Harry.
Then we'll have grumpy old man Harry complaining he's still an Ensign? That would be interesting.
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Old November 7 2013, 07:52 PM   #43
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

The only good Harry Kim is a "Deadlock" alternate timeline version of Harry Kim.
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Old November 7 2013, 09:20 PM   #44
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

So the one who got spaced?
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Old November 8 2013, 12:15 AM   #45
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Re: Thoughts on Season 5

R. Star wrote: View Post
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They should have paradoxically changed places and the old Harry replaced the young Harry.
Then we'll have grumpy old man Harry complaining he's still an Ensign? That would be interesting.
But he wouldn't! Be an ensign.. he would no longer be in Starfleet and be one of those outlier crew members like 7 and Neelix. Because he was old Harry who had gone through real shit rather than just problems with his mother it would be a total reboot of his personality. Harry 2.0.

This would have been pretty awesome.
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