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Old October 30 2013, 01:45 AM   #16
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Joker falling off a building

FWIW, I took the Dark Knight's scene to be a reference to the original Batman movie scene (hence why it was subverted by having the Joker survive). Video games, likewise, could be the same.
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Old October 30 2013, 02:06 AM   #17
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Re: Joker falling off a building

The best (as in most dramatic) high fall death I've ever seen was performed by Dar Robinson in the Burt Reynolds film Stick. He appears throughout the film as a bad guy, and it's even more shocking when you him fall from a railing screaming, firing all his bullets at Burt, and there's obviously no airbag under him. No blue screen either.

Here's the scene. May be NSFW due to language.



If embed fails: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiKy3ktxw6M
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Old October 30 2013, 02:35 AM   #18
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
FWIW, I took the Dark Knight's scene to be a reference to the original Batman movie scene (hence why it was subverted by having the Joker survive). Video games, likewise, could be the same.
And that could be it. Maybe the 1989 Batman scene is what is being referenced rather than a comic book scene.
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Old October 30 2013, 04:43 AM   #19
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote:
I think a case can be made that the most prolific killer in cinematic history is the Earth's gravitational field
Do you think anyone will prosecute? I'm pretty sure we have enough evidence for an indictment.
But how could we imprison it? Failing the invention of Cavorite, nothing can block gravity.


Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
FWIW, I took the Dark Knight's scene to be a reference to the original Batman movie scene (hence why it was subverted by having the Joker survive).
That seems profoundly unlikely to me. Falling is such a generic movie-villain death that it's not a distinctive enough similarity to suggest a connection. If it were, say, two scenes of the Joker being shot with a harpoon gun by a trained seal, then that would be distinctive enough that one would probably be an homage to the other. But falling? That's just too commonplace. It's like saying that two scenes of the Joker laughing are referencing each other.


Melakon wrote: View Post
The best (as in most dramatic) high fall death I've ever seen was performed by Dar Robinson in the Burt Reynolds film Stick. He appears throughout the film as a bad guy, and it's even more shocking when you him fall from a railing screaming, firing all his bullets at Burt, and there's obviously no airbag under him. No blue screen either.
I remember that. I never saw the movie, but the stunt itself was big news. As I recall, it was a pioneering use of the descender system, a wire mechanism that allowed a stunt performer to fall freely until shortly before reaching the ground when they were quickly decelerated. The same mechanism was used for Kirk's fall off El Capitan in Star Trek V; the credits of that film actually boast that it was the longest descender fall in history up to that point.
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Old October 30 2013, 05:34 AM   #20
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Batman and his villains also seem to spend a lot of time on rooftops and upper floors of buildings, so it makes sense that people would fall off of them a lot.
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Old October 30 2013, 05:37 AM   #21
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Re: Joker falling off a building

It bears mentioning that falling is mythologically symbolic in the Judeo-Christian zeitgeist. The Fall from Grace and all that. Which may explain why Batman falls on occasion, too, as he struggles with his own inner demons, for ex. confronting the Scarecrow in Batman Begins, the hallucinated swarm of bats overwhelming him....

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Old October 30 2013, 05:44 AM   #22
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Melakon wrote: View Post
The best (as in most dramatic) high fall death I've ever seen was performed by Dar Robinson in the Burt Reynolds film Stick. He appears throughout the film as a bad guy, and it's even more shocking when you him fall from a railing screaming, firing all his bullets at Burt, and there's obviously no airbag under him. No blue screen either.

Here's the scene. May be NSFW due to language.



If embed fails: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiKy3ktxw6M
NICE! That was a really creepy performance. But there was a cut away to another camera for another pov of the fall. There probably was 2 different falls edited together. The second one was likely closer to the ground. Very effective scene though.
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Old October 30 2013, 01:35 PM   #23
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Dick Whitman wrote: View Post
But there was a cut away to another camera for another pov of the fall. There probably was 2 different falls edited together. The second one was likely closer to the ground. Very effective scene though.
Well, as I said, that stunt got a lot of behind-the-scenes coverage on TV, and my recollection is that they were shooting the stunt with two or more cameras simultaneously so they'd have coverage from different angles -- a common practice with big stunts, explosions, and the like. So the whole thing was a single continuous stunt fall using a descender rig, but naturally they had to cut away from the downward-looking angle in the last seconds, otherwise it would've given away that Robinson was being slowed by the wire and didn't hit the ground.
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Old October 30 2013, 01:37 PM   #24
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Christopher wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
FWIW, I took the Dark Knight's scene to be a reference to the original Batman movie scene (hence why it was subverted by having the Joker survive).
That seems profoundly unlikely to me. Falling is such a generic movie-villain death that it's not a distinctive enough similarity to suggest a connection. If it were, say, two scenes of the Joker being shot with a harpoon gun by a trained seal, then that would be distinctive enough that one would probably be an homage to the other. But falling? That's just too commonplace. It's like saying that two scenes of the Joker laughing are referencing each other.
Well, to me, the fact that the Joker didn't fall to his death in The Dark Knight is what made me think it was referencing his original death in Batman. He's falling while laughing and the audience expects he'll die in the same way, but he doesn't. It could be a coincidence, I just think, given the sample size of Batman movie deaths, it's less likely.
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Old October 30 2013, 01:47 PM   #25
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Alan Rickman's character Hans slo-mo falling to his death in the original Die Hard movie was one of the better falling from a building to his death moments.
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Old October 30 2013, 02:06 PM   #26
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, to me, the fact that the Joker didn't fall to his death in The Dark Knight is what made me think it was referencing his original death in Batman.
Except that was not, by any definition, "his original death." The Joker had been around as a character for nearly half a century when that movie came out, and had been seemingly killed a number of times before it. Indeed, he was supposed to die at the end of Batman #1 in 1940, but the editor insisted they add a line revealing that he would survive his injuries.


He's falling while laughing and the audience expects he'll die in the same way, but he doesn't. It could be a coincidence, I just think, given the sample size of Batman movie deaths, it's less likely.
The Joker does pretty much everything while laughing. Again, it's not remotely distinctive enough to prove deliberate imitation.

And the sample size of Batman live-action movies is too small to be statistically useful anyway.
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Old October 30 2013, 05:46 PM   #27
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Christopher wrote: View Post
Silvercrest wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote:
I think a case can be made that the most prolific killer in cinematic history is the Earth's gravitational field
Do you think anyone will prosecute? I'm pretty sure we have enough evidence for an indictment.
But how could we imprison it? Failing the invention of Cavorite, nothing can block gravity.
I suppose in this metaphor the Earth's gravitational field doesn't represent a criminal, it represents the authorities. Judge, jury, and executioner. "9.8 meters per second per second. It isn't just a good idea ... it's the law."
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Old October 30 2013, 08:06 PM   #28
Greg Cox
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Christopher wrote: View Post

I think a case can be made that the most prolific killer in cinematic history is the Earth's gravitational field.
"Some problems are best disposed of at a great height . . . over water."--James Mason, North By Northwest

(Which, come to think of it, features Martin Landau falling to his death from Mt. Rushmore . . . .)
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Old October 30 2013, 08:24 PM   #29
Melakon
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Christopher wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
. . .Dar Robinson. . .Stick. . .
. . .I remember that. I never saw the movie, but the stunt itself was big news. As I recall, it was a pioneering use of the descender system, a wire mechanism that allowed a stunt performer to fall freely until shortly before reaching the ground when they were quickly decelerated. . .
Don't seek out the movie; Robinson's fall is the best thing in it. And you're right, the wire rig was his own patented system he called the "decelerator". He lobbied to play the character throughout the film, just so that the death would be even more of a shock to audiences. Emptying the gun was his idea too.

That stunt alone caused me to start trying to find out who Dar Robinson was, because seeing that film in a theater on release, I thought he was just another actor. The onscreen death without a stuntman cutaway really surprised me.
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Old October 30 2013, 09:49 PM   #30
Christopher
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Re: Joker falling off a building

Melakon wrote: View Post
Don't seek out the movie
I wasn't planning to. Not my kind of film.


That stunt alone caused me to start trying to find out who Dar Robinson was, because seeing that film in a theater on release, I thought he was just another actor. The onscreen death without a stuntman cutaway really surprised me.
I remember Robinson being a pretty famous name at the time, pretty much the highest-profile stuntman in the business for a while. That movie was probably a large part of why. Among other things.

And I guess the term was "decelerator" rather than "descender" as I was calling it. Oops.
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