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Old October 28 2013, 05:59 PM   #466
R. Star
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Valtane. No U. Does it matter to the plot? Not really. But it is sloppy writing at best. At worst they just figure we're too dumb to notice details like that and just threw in a face we might recognize.
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Old October 28 2013, 08:23 PM   #467
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
A man coming back from the dead with no explanation is inconsequential? Either the writers were just too lazy to notice or they thought we were too stupid to notice. Was it really hard to cast a new guy as Tuvok's coworker that dies instead of Night of the Living Redshirts?

At least in ID they lamely tried to say "superblood" cured Kirk's death.
Valtane appeared to die in "Flashback" and then was revived after they got out of there. The virus jumped to Tuvok because it assumed he was totally dead and revival was not possible.
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Old October 28 2013, 08:57 PM   #468
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Tuvok's memory of events may be suspect anyway, as he was under the effect of the virus.
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Old October 28 2013, 09:03 PM   #469
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Other way around.

30 years without the virus. 80 years with the virus. 4 years later he's got a degenerative mental illness. It's possible that the syphilis was actually keeping his bain in working order when it should have packed up years earlier.

His cosmic clap turned out to actually be very useful brain steroids.
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Old October 28 2013, 09:43 PM   #470
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
^ When you consider that there is a point in TUC where Vultane appears to be in two different places at once (thank you, Memory Alpha) and that the shot of the Excelsior crew is a very minor footnote of TUC's ending, any discontinuity that may or may not exist with regards to Vultane IS ultimately inconsequential.
Upto a point, the writers choose to re-use Valatine it was a conscious decison, no doubt to use a character with which some of the audiance might be familiar with. It's insulting to the audiance to think that they wouldn't pick up on the fact that he was seemingly killed yet alive and well at the end of TUC. It's sloppy writting, isn't one of the rules of writting be consistant with events, it clearly wasn't consistant with TUC.

And correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't "Flashback" imply that the events seen in the episode that took place days after Praxis exploded rather than weeks as implied in TUC?

Yet another inconsistancy (If I'm right)?
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Old October 28 2013, 10:03 PM   #471
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Tuvok delivered the teacup to Sulu in Flashback that was destroyed when the ship was rocked by the explosion of Praxis.
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Old October 28 2013, 11:39 PM   #472
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I'm still not convinced that Voyager is a 'Serialized Procedural'.

The 'Procedural' aspect of a cop show or legal drama is obvious. It's the minutea of the job, showing the police going methodically through investigating a case or a legal team moving with their client from discovering what the issue is to reaching a negotiated resolution (or, if it comes down to it, fighting the battle in court).

The description 'Procedural' implies a narrative focus on such minutea is essential. What makes any old detective show a 'Procedural' is the extent to which the writers have done their research and incorporate that minutea into the drama.

Unless we count the Technobabble, as far as I know Star Trek could not truly be described as a 'Procedural' in any of it's various formats.
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Old October 29 2013, 05:57 AM   #473
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I've always been satisfied with single episode stories (save for two-parters and such). I've got a life (such as it is ), and I don't have the time or patience to sit through seasons-long, complex stories, especially when so many I hear about seem to end in disappointment or dissatisfaction.

I keep hearing how modern audiences "want" this sort of thing nowadays...but when it's all that seems to be offered, how can I "expect" anything else? When I go to McDonalds, I "want" hamburgers, because I know that's what they have. I wouldn't be adverse to find they also had, say, crab cakes. I could always go to Burger King (i.e. change channels), but...what do you know? More burgers!

Conventional wisdom is the engine that drives the train, and producers are going to make series they think we "want", but when nothing else is offered, of course we're going to "want" it! "Expect" doesn't necessarily mean "want".

I fully "expect" to be in the minority on this...
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Old October 29 2013, 06:32 AM   #474
Lance
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
I've always been satisfied with single episode stories (save for two-parters and such). I've got a life (such as it is ), and I don't have the time or patience to sit through seasons-long, complex stories, especially when so many I hear about seem to end in disappointment or dissatisfaction.

I keep hearing how modern audiences "want" this sort of thing nowadays...but when it's all that seems to be offered, how can I "expect" anything else? When I go to McDonalds, I "want" hamburgers, because I know that's what they have. I wouldn't be adverse to find they also had, say, crab cakes. I could always go to Burger King (i.e. change channels), but...what do you know? More burgers!

Conventional wisdom is the engine that drives the train, and producers are going to make series they think we "want", but when nothing else is offered, of course we're going to "want" it! "Expect" doesn't necessarily mean "want".

I fully "expect" to be in the minority on this...
Don't worry, you are not alone. I too find serial television somewhat passe these days. I think there was a period where it became fashionable, and heaven only knows I thought things like Buffy, The X-Files and The West Wing were the cleverest thing on TV in their day; I thought that serial television allowed so much more scope that regular old jeopardy-of-the-week plotting. But on some level, I've changed my mind about that. I think these days I might actually prefer the lack of complexity that pure episodic television provides. Serial television requires a lot more..... 'commitment'.
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Old October 29 2013, 06:51 AM   #475
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Lance wrote: View Post
Don't worry, you are not alone. I too find serial television somewhat passe these days. I think there was a period where it became fashionable, and heaven only knows I thought things like Buffy, The X-Files and The West Wing were the cleverest thing on TV in their day; I thought that serial television allowed so much more scope that regular old jeopardy-of-the-week plotting. But on some level, I've changed my mind about that. I think these days I might actually prefer the lack of complexity that pure episodic television provides. Serial television requires a lot more..... 'commitment'.
Thanks, Lance! I don't feel so alone now!

I keep waiting for reality tv to die out, but at this point I think tv will die first. Hmm, maybe Data was right, after all: 2040 isn't really all that far away!
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Old October 29 2013, 06:52 AM   #476
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Lance wrote: View Post
LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
I've always been satisfied with single episode stories (save for two-parters and such). . .
Don't worry, you are not alone. . .
Same here. If I wanted to watch serialized television, I would have been watching daytime soap operas for the last 50 years. Mini-series like Roots are about all I have the patience to sit through. I equate movies to novels, and television episodes to short stories. A serialized 12 to 24 episode television show for 5 years would be the equivalent of reading all of Dickens' works.

ETA: About the only other time serialized stories worked for me were the old Saturday matinee chapterplays from Republic and other studios, and old Rocky & Bullwinkle cartoons.
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Last edited by Melakon; October 29 2013 at 07:03 AM.
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Old October 29 2013, 07:09 AM   #477
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I just finished The Chute and have an observation that, while not specifically continuity-related per se, is still worth mentioning: watching that episode after having watched The Undiscovered Country and Flashback makes its events resonate deeper because a lot of parallels can be drawn between what Kirk and McCoy experience in Rura Penthe and what Tom and Harry go throw in the Akritirian 'Chute Prison'.
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Old October 29 2013, 05:19 PM   #478
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
I've always been satisfied with single episode stories (save for two-parters and such). I've got a life (such as it is ), and I don't have the time or patience to sit through seasons-long, complex stories, especially when so many I hear about seem to end in disappointment or dissatisfaction.

I keep hearing how modern audiences "want" this sort of thing nowadays...but when it's all that seems to be offered, how can I "expect" anything else? When I go to McDonalds, I "want" hamburgers, because I know that's what they have. I wouldn't be adverse to find they also had, say, crab cakes. I could always go to Burger King (i.e. change channels), but...what do you know? More burgers!

Conventional wisdom is the engine that drives the train, and producers are going to make series they think we "want", but when nothing else is offered, of course we're going to "want" it! "Expect" doesn't necessarily mean "want".

I fully "expect" to be in the minority on this...
There is room for multiple types of storytelling on TV, we can of course deabte one type is better than the rest. But that really isn't the point, the point is did they use the right one. Sure shows like L&O for example we would expect to be rather episodic. But for example a show like VOY which had an overall narrative (the journey home) so it's not unreasonable for the audiance (or a portion of it) to expect a tighter focus on continuity, serialistion and consistancy of charactersation/themes.
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Old October 30 2013, 02:28 AM   #479
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

The Fugitive also had an overall narrative, that didn't stop it from being mostly an episodic show as well until near the end.
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Old October 30 2013, 03:06 AM   #480
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
I just finished The Chute and have an observation that, while not specifically continuity-related per se, is still worth mentioning: watching that episode after having watched The Undiscovered Country and Flashback makes its events resonate deeper because a lot of parallels can be drawn between what Kirk and McCoy experience in Rura Penthe and what Tom and Harry go throw in the Akritirian 'Chute Prison'.
What parallels are there other than two guys in prison?
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