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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

View Poll Results: Hero Or Villain?
Hero 28 71.79%
Villain 3 7.69%
Other. Explain. 8 20.51%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 27 2013, 04:41 PM   #16
Melakon
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

Hero. She did everything in her power to ensure that she and Borg Babe would live happily ever after together. And Mulgrew rocks.
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Old October 27 2013, 05:19 PM   #17
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

The only thing that keeps me from voting 'Hero' is the way she helped the Borg in Scorpion. She hung entire worlds out to dry there.
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Old October 27 2013, 05:59 PM   #18
Anwar
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The only thing that keeps me from voting 'Hero' is the way she helped the Borg in Scorpion. She hung entire worlds out to dry there.
You think the 8472 wouldn't have slaughtered those people?
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Old October 27 2013, 06:34 PM   #19
R. Star
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

Anwar wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The only thing that keeps me from voting 'Hero' is the way she helped the Borg in Scorpion. She hung entire worlds out to dry there.
You think the 8472 wouldn't have slaughtered those people?
Uh, the only thing 8472 is guilty of is maybe using excessive force in defending themselves. Maybe. They had every right to tear the Borg a new one for attacking them. They had every right to assume Voyager was an enemy when they boarded their ship, tried tractoring it, and beaming it away in their first encounter and then were seen collaborating with their enemy from that point on. Then invading their realm and using biological weapons didn't help either.

And before you throw out that "the weak shall perish" or "your galaxy will be purged" just remember... front line soldiers say crap like that all the time. Not to mention we have only Kes' admittedly sketchy telepathy to go on with that. If an American solider says "Kill em all!" that doesn't mean we're a nation of genocidal manics bent on exterminating all other nations. When an important 8472 showed up later on they were quite reasonable actually.

So yes... Janeway basically aided the Borg in fighting an enemy just to get what she wanted. And they betrayed her, surprise, surprise. I'd be pissed off at her too if I was Arturis.
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Old October 27 2013, 09:21 PM   #20
Guy Gardener
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

Janeway had bad intelligence.

8472 turned out to be not that bad, who were not going to purge the galaxy, but at the time she was taking the word of a 5 year old to tell the good guys from the bad guys.
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; October 28 2013 at 04:49 AM.
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Old October 28 2013, 01:50 AM   #21
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

Eh, it's hard to tell if 8472 would have carried out their threat to destroy other races after they destroyed the Borg. Their state of mind at the time was, there was no difference between the Borg and the rest of the galaxy. Given what we know in In The Flesh, they are reasonable people, and it might have turned into a Minbari situation. But I guess, given the information Janeway had at the time, it was reasonable to assume they were savages.

I would still say it puts her in the 'Other' category, because her motives at the time were strictly selfish, and she later disowned her actions when she found out they caused other worlds to get assimilated.
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Old October 28 2013, 03:39 AM   #22
picardo
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

I've always supported Janeway in all her decisions (Tuvix included) and I think she always had sound judgement and knew how to impose her authority, she's a brilliant captain.

However, the one time I disagreed with her was in the episode "Prey". In that episode she proved to be stubborn and let her personal differences with a crew member (7/9) cloud her judgement. Furthermore, she tried to please both the 8472 and the Hirogen, I think the expression kill two birds with the same stone (or something of the sort) was used at some point during the epidose, can't remember exactly, but this is the one time when i thought Janeway was a fool and 7/9's assessment of the situation was realistic and sound.

Janeway almost got everyone killed - good to see 7/9 take the initiative and save the day. With the exception of this single episode I always admired Janeway for her decisions and her command of the ship, but her stubbornness in "Prey" disappointed me.
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Old October 28 2013, 10:44 AM   #23
Kaffe
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

Hero. As said before, she did her best with what she had, where she was. Yes, she contradicted herself at times but honestly, who doesn't? We are all complex people. And only human after all. A character without flaws is a boring one, in my opinion.
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Old October 28 2013, 10:59 AM   #24
Guy Gardener
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

It's not that she has flaws that is the problem.

It's more of an Emperor's new clothes situation.

Kathryn is certain that she isn't naked on the bridge.
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Old October 28 2013, 01:15 PM   #25
hux
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

Neither hero nor villain

I still believe she was deliberately written to be a captain out of her depth and prone to poor judgement (why make it her first command....i think the writers did that so they could play with that a little....certainly more than previous captains)

It resulted in possibly the most interesting captain.....because she was so flawed
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Old October 28 2013, 01:21 PM   #26
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

Neither. Just petty and small-minded.
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Old October 30 2013, 10:52 PM   #27
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

teacock wrote: View Post
Caffeine addiction is listed as a flaw?

And the nuances, I give most of the credit to Mulgrew's performance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0NnpJb0NwY



I can see another Janeway/coffee video in our future... set to the music "If loving you is wrong, I don't want to be right."

Janeway is a hero.

She never gave up.

Even when the odds were stacked against her.

Even when the ship was tossed 75,000 light years away.

She went into Kazon space to bring Chakotay home.

She searched Unimatrix one to bring Seven home.

She searched well beyond the life expectancy of the Delta Flyer to bring B'Elanna and Kim home.

She went sleepless to the point she began refusing caffeine when she was searching to bring Tuvok, Paris and Ensign Wildman home.

She followed a trader/thief through multiple twists and turns to find/retrieve the EMH.

Yeah... people died.

And she'll never forget them.

But she brought her ship/crew HOME and dealt an incapacitating blow to the BORG while she did it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_4XJAt5mU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_4XJAt5mU&hl=en&fs=1&">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_4XJAt5mU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">

If loving this Captain is wrong, I don't want to be right.
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Old October 31 2013, 08:56 AM   #28
teacake
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

This was stirring JRulez

AND CORRECT!
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Old October 31 2013, 09:01 AM   #29
Guy Gardener
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

Igniting an attack that slaughtered 90 trillion people, who would have lived if Captain Janeway had followed Admiral Janeway's original plan to sneak through the hub without destroying it or UNimatrix 001.
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Old October 31 2013, 10:08 AM   #30
teacake
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Re: Janeway: Hero Or Villain?

Always focusing on a few bad days
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