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Old October 26 2013, 08:34 PM   #961
R. Star
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

That's right... keep calling Tuvix a transporter accident and not a person, like he is. It's easier to live with murdering someone if you dehumanize your victim.
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Old October 26 2013, 09:06 PM   #962
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

DeVulcanizing.

Killing Talaxians for kicks is fine.
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Old October 26 2013, 11:02 PM   #963
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I just realized that with this flower thing they discovered, at the end of the episode they can pretty much combine any two people and then separate them at will, with no danger. Starfleet can take their top specialists and combine them. Plus Maybe some freaky couples would sign up for it.

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
I believe that she faced, essentially, the same basic decision faced by any person who has ever had to make a decision regarding the usage and/or removal of life support, and see absolutely no controversy in that kind of decision.
Who makes that decision when the person on life support is saying they want to live, though?
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Old October 26 2013, 11:24 PM   #964
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Makarov wrote: View Post
I just realized that with this flower thing they discovered, at the end of the episode they can pretty much combine any two people and then separate them at will, with no danger. Starfleet can take their top specialists and combine them. Plus Maybe some freaky couples would sign up for it.
Yes I am convinced there are labs full of transporter experiments. Section 31 probably has its own lab but there would be plenty of rogue scientists. Someone is probably trying to make Klingon/targ hybrids to send into battle.
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Old October 26 2013, 11:25 PM   #965
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

How did you think that the 29th century Time cops were integrating their time criminals?
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Old October 26 2013, 11:34 PM   #966
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

It's fascinating how the body just adapts to being smooshed into another body.. realistically everyone should end up like the TMP horror. The BME folk would be enthralled at the possibilities.
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Old October 27 2013, 04:44 AM   #967
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Just because her brain wasn't there to add to the Tuvix personality... Are we sure that her Ocampan DNA didn't effect Tuvix's brain construction? Although some of her personality cold have slipped in just from "backups" in something we don't understand which is why clones from fingernail cells in sciencefiction always seem to have a complete set of memories from the donor...

Tuvix was really Keelok.

The Kes component in the mix sabotaged the entire existence of this beings life.

Rather than bing forced to frakk herself, Kess inside Tuvix made sure that Kes outside Tuvix didn't want Tuvix inside Kes.

Seriously?

In Fury, how hard from a special effects budget point of view would it have been for old Kes to make out with young Kes?

It couldn't have been more disturbing than what i saw on American Horror last night.
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Old October 27 2013, 07:13 AM   #968
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Just think of the possibilities though. Odo always regretted not being able to link with Kira... one crazy alien plant and he's linked with her forever!
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Old October 27 2013, 12:50 PM   #969
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Makarov wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
... removal of life support ...
Who makes that decision when the person on life support is saying they want to live, though?
I wonder if Vorik (the other Vulcan on Voyager) could have mind melded with Tuvix and contacted both Tuvok and Neelix, to find out if they would have wanted Janeway to enable them to live separately?

I'm pretty sure what the answer would have been. Aren't you?

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
That's right... keep calling Tuvix a transporter accident ...
I intend too.

... and not a person, like he is. It's easier to live with murdering someone if you dehumanize your victim.
Isn't that what you're doing with Tuvok and Neelix?

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Old October 27 2013, 12:59 PM   #970
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Tuvix was an aberration - a sentient aberration, but an aberration nonetheless - and Janeway essentially exercised her right as Tuvok and Neelix's 'legal surrogate' (which, as their Captain, she was by default) to make a choice that they themselves couldn't make, just as a person's 'legal surrogate' would decide whether to put said person on life support or remove said person from life support or to authorize surgery that might correct an aberration in said person's body or brain that might allow them to survive and live a normal life following severe injury.
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Old October 27 2013, 01:30 PM   #971
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

We saw in Mortal Coil that Neelix wanted to stay dead with his sister, and any attempt to bring him back from the afterlife was as an unholesome rape which he just wasn't into.
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Old October 27 2013, 01:32 PM   #972
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

The key word there is sentient, Tuvix as a sentient being was entitiled to all the rights granted sentient beings by the Federation. If he chooses not to give up his life, well that's his right. People die all the time in accidents.

As for Janeway being promoted to an Admiral, it's quite clear she was a menace to the space lanes, so she was promoted into a position in which she could do least harm. Conversely Kirk was demoted into a position in which he good do most good.
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Old October 27 2013, 05:36 PM   #973
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Unspeakable wrote: View Post

... and not a person, like he is. It's easier to live with murdering someone if you dehumanize your victim.
Isn't that what you're doing with Tuvok and Neelix?

There's a huge moral difference between two people dying in an accident and deliberately murdering someone to save two people you like more.
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Old October 27 2013, 05:45 PM   #974
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

MacLeod wrote: View Post
. . .People die all the time in accidents. . .
Well, that could have been Janeway's potential other option then.

"We're in orbit, Captain."
"Thank you, Mr. Paris. Sensor readings?"
"The planet's surface is poisonous to human life."
"Understood. Mr. Tuvix, the landing party will consist of yourself. We'll beam you back up in 10 minutes."
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Old October 27 2013, 06:09 PM   #975
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Tuvix was an aberration - a sentient aberration, but an aberration nonetheless - and Janeway essentially exercised her right as Tuvok and Neelix's 'legal surrogate' (which, as their Captain, she was by default) to make a choice that they themselves couldn't make, just as a person's 'legal surrogate' would decide whether to put said person on life support or remove said person from life support or to authorize surgery that might correct an aberration in said person's body or brain that might allow them to survive and live a normal life following severe injury.
Yeah but correct me if I'm wrong, I think if the patient says "I don't want this surgery." or "Keep me on life support" then I don't think the legal surrogate has the right to decide.
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