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Old October 25 2013, 01:32 PM   #16
jespah
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

Gaith wrote: View Post
^ Unfortunately, the whale then mentioned that she was an ABBA fan, and Spock therefore wrote her and her kind off.
Her favorite song, of course, was Waterloo.
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Old October 25 2013, 04:38 PM   #17
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

I always expected the Xindi bird people to be found somewhere.
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Old October 25 2013, 05:28 PM   #18
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?
Yup. In space's crazy neighborhood, the Delphic Expanse. They're lucky they weren't all suddenly and randomly turned inside-out, or have their gravity invert, sending them into space to die an icy cold death.
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Old October 27 2013, 05:46 PM   #19
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

Very minor genetic differences can create major physical differences.

It's not too surprising for multiple sentient species to evolve on the same planet. I don't buy the nihilistic 'They will necessarily destroy each other' argument. The most likely scenario where multiple sentient species evolve on the same planet is, right when they start to become sentient they become physically separated, then when they find each other again there aren't any major technological differences so one is not capable of just dominating the other and they are forced to get along.

In the Xindi case, this seems likely, because all five of them occupy different environmental niches where they do not compete for the same resources.
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Old October 27 2013, 08:39 PM   #20
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

ITHallow wrote: View Post
I always expected the Xindi bird people to be found somewhere.
They all died. The Yeti, sorry, Primate Xindi Archer befriends mentions that when their world died, the Avions couldn't adapt or flee.

They were the only ones who didn't achieve either full sentience or just technology, the various tribes left in segregated groups, none bothering to help the avions.
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Old October 28 2013, 07:59 AM   #21
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

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Indeed, given that Humans have only had practical intercontinental travel for a few hundred years, I think it is entirely plausible that different kinds of intelligent species could have evolved on the same planet.
I admit finding it hard that many different kinds of civilizable life would evolve on a single planet; it seems improbable. But, anyone paying attention to biology the past two decades and the discovery of how bizarre extremophiles can get should be a little humble about proclaiming things impossible, and it is, after all, a huge universe out there.

(And the Star Trek universe is also one with abundant meddlesome entities of incredible power and unclear agendas, just in case something can't possibly happen on its own, and I would try not to be dogmatic in declaring this can't possibly happen on its own.)
It is impossible for a mammal to be more closely related to a reptile than to all other mammals. Unless evolution works in a completely different way on other planets (which is almost impossible), the different species of Xindi are not closely related. A Xindi primate and a Xindi insectoid would be about as closely related as you are to a praying Mantis.
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Old October 28 2013, 09:37 AM   #22
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Nebusj wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Indeed, given that Humans have only had practical intercontinental travel for a few hundred years, I think it is entirely plausible that different kinds of intelligent species could have evolved on the same planet.
I admit finding it hard that many different kinds of civilizable life would evolve on a single planet; it seems improbable. But, anyone paying attention to biology the past two decades and the discovery of how bizarre extremophiles can get should be a little humble about proclaiming things impossible, and it is, after all, a huge universe out there.

(And the Star Trek universe is also one with abundant meddlesome entities of incredible power and unclear agendas, just in case something can't possibly happen on its own, and I would try not to be dogmatic in declaring this can't possibly happen on its own.)
It is impossible for a mammal to be more closely related to a reptile than to all other mammals. Unless evolution works in a completely different way on other planets (which is almost impossible), the different species of Xindi are not closely related. A Xindi primate and a Xindi insectoid would be about as closely related as you are to a praying Mantis.
Unless the terms 'primate', 'reptilian' and 'insectoid' are basically meaningless human-centric descriptions that concern only their superficial characteristics. Without looking deeper at more internal characteristics, it would be just as easy to declare that whales and dolphins clearly can't be closely related to elephants and gorillas - but it wouldn't be entirely accurate.
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Old October 28 2013, 11:04 AM   #23
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

Not unless you have no comprehension of what "insect" means scientifically compared to "reptile" or "mammal".
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Old October 28 2013, 11:21 AM   #24
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

Your understanding of those terms doesn't guarantee that the people describing the Xindi as insectoid or primate are using the terms literally.
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Old October 28 2013, 11:42 AM   #25
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

There are several problems with the Xindi. But also with evolution in Star Trek in general. It is deterministic, it produces abundant intelligent life, mostly humanoid.

But, what is the issue? That they are related? Or that they are evolved?

To their relation: Just from a statistical DNA view-> If they are from the same planet, the should have some 40-60% similarity. If we add the percentage of similarity that exist between advanced humanoids (the fact that different alien species are genetically compatible, think on all those hybrids) we could come up with a greater number.

If we take a look on the point that the Xindi evolved on the same planet:
Yes, their different environments could be the answer->

Xindi-Aquatics - sea
Xindi-Arboreals - ???
Xindi-Avians - ???
Xindi-Insectoids - ??? (rain forests, some place humid)
Xindi-Primates - ???
Xindi-Reptilians - warm regions

As most races in Star Trek have a small drive to expand, this could be similar in the Xindi and they did not have the opportunity to wipe each other in their Neanderthal stage, but only met each other in their Antiquity, when they were on equal footing.

We should also note that they did not have to have evolved, but could have been uplifted by some old race...
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Old October 28 2013, 05:56 PM   #26
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

Because forbid the concept of a sentient race evolving in more than one type of terrain.
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Old October 28 2013, 06:39 PM   #27
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

Chrysalis wrote: View Post
ITHallow wrote: View Post
I always expected the Xindi bird people to be found somewhere.
They all died. The Yeti, sorry, Primate Xindi Archer befriends mentions that when their world died, the Avions couldn't adapt or flee.

They were the only ones who didn't achieve either full sentience or just technology, the various tribes left in segregated groups, none bothering to help the avions.
Yes thank you I did manage to grasp the gist of the story. I just thought a pocket of them would be found
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Old October 28 2013, 11:15 PM   #28
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

I'd say it's not realistic. I was peeved when Phlox said the replitian and primate as closely related as we are to the neanderthals. We look very similar to the neanderthals...
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Old October 28 2013, 11:47 PM   #29
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

The problem is that these writers aren't even high school biology teachers. They don't know what they're talking about, half the time ... especially when it comes to how closely related primates, reptiles and insects are. They just include what "sounds good," and figure "what the balls, if this isn't hard science?" It's all make-believe, folks.
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Old October 29 2013, 01:37 AM   #30
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Re: Did the Xindi all evolve on 1 planet?

The Green Monster wrote: View Post
I'd say it's not realistic. I was peeved when Phlox said the replitian and primate as closely related as we are to the neanderthals. We look very similar to the neanderthals...
The Reptilian Xindi looks an awful lot like the Primate Xindi. The skin's different and there's some minor anatomy changes, but, heck, black wolves and bichons frise are the same species, and they barely share much in appearance besides ``quadruped animal''.
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