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Old October 25 2013, 08:15 AM   #91
teacake
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

That would have been hilarious if the Enterprise bridge was seen through a cloud of smoke like the offices in Mad Men.
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Old October 25 2013, 08:28 AM   #92
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

ENT used smoke a lot. One of the bloopers (from THe Expanse I think) has Bakula hitting his mark and cracking up because the smoke is so thick he can barely see, adlibbing "That's right men, next year fire extinguishers for everybody."
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Old November 5 2013, 03:04 AM   #93
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

This thread has degenerated rather quickly.

I happen to be a fan of both Neelix and Kes and enjoyed their relationship, which was actually handled rather well in spite of the discrepancies created by airing episodes like Elogium and Twisted completely out of order, and am also of the opinion that, although it would've been nice to have seen the 'closure' scene that was filmed for them in Fair Trade, Warlord works perfectly fine as the 'breaking point' for their relationship.
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Old November 5 2013, 03:14 AM   #94
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Do we have the script for the closure scene?
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Old November 5 2013, 03:19 AM   #95
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

I know it's available in print in the Star Trek Voyager Companion.
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Old November 5 2013, 03:26 AM   #96
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Whoa, why have I not know this!

Someone post the good bits!
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Old November 6 2013, 04:19 PM   #97
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Warlord works perfectly fine as the 'breaking point' for their relationship.
I totally disagree. In "Warlord" she was being controlled by an alien, so that doesn't count. Then based on dialogue in subsequent episodes we're supposed to believe they broke up for real but I guess we just didn't see it, or maybe what we saw was real. Sorry, that's not how I took it at all. Perhaps one could analyze it and show how it makes sense on paper, but that's no substitute for how it made me feel actually watching it unfold. It sucked. And where where was the big emotional breakdown from Neelix when Kes finally left for good in "The Gift?" Neelix was very selfish and child-like with his feelings and territorial over Kes, and to ignore all of that when Kes actually left was to ignore some potential growth for his character. There could have been some wonderfully emotional scenes with him there. In this case, they blew it.
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Old November 6 2013, 04:27 PM   #98
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Kes was under Tieran's influence, but, at the point she broke up with Neelix, she wasn't entirely being controlled by him, and the things she said while being influenced by him weren't just made up.

The Fair Trade 'closure scene' would've been a good coda to what happened in Warlord, but, from a writing standpoint, what happens in that episode (Warlord) is able to stand on its own and function as a decent 'breaking point' for their relationship.
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Old November 6 2013, 04:46 PM   #99
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
from a writing standpoint, what happens in that episode (Warlord) is able to stand on its own and function as a decent 'breaking point' for their relationship.
Oh, well when you put it that way...
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Old November 6 2013, 05:13 PM   #100
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

FWIW, it didn't make any sense to me either. I figured Kes broke up with Neelix in "Warlord" to keep him out of the way for what was going to happen. Then the next episode happens and they're still broken-up. Major WTFage.

Kids, don't have your characters break up in the same episode where one of them is going to be possessed.
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Old November 6 2013, 05:17 PM   #101
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Was their break-up handled as smoothly as it could've been? No, it was not. Did/does it work for what it was? Yes.
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Old November 6 2013, 08:16 PM   #102
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Kes: Neelix, are you dealing Drugs?

Neelix: Yes Sweeting, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Kes: Can I try some?

Neelix: No, of course not!

Kes: I will not be treated like a child! Give me some gear, or you're flicked!

...

Neelix got inbetween Kes and the monkey on her back, and THAT's why they broke up... Worst threesome ever?

Wait?

Isn't this the episode where Neelix says "I'm an ignorant useless son of a bitch and no one needs me, I might as well space myself for all the worth I am to this crew... No body loves me, I suck."

So the original plan, was that Neelix works super hard to make sure that Janeway doesn't maroon him on a passing moon only for Kes to exile him to the no sex club.

That's a way better ending to that episode.
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Old November 7 2013, 02:24 AM   #103
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Count me in as a person who likes Neelix. I felt that he actually started growing as a character once Kes broke up with him. I think their relationship brought out the worst in him in that he was possessive, jealous and some what controlling. I think Neelix had massive abandonment issues stemming from losing his entire family and this came out in shitty ways in his relationship with Kes.

Sure Neelix could be annoying with his overt cheerfulness but i think behind all that was a guy who doubted his worth and was broken emotionally. I'm glad that was explored during the annual serious neelix episodes.
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Old November 7 2013, 02:27 AM   #104
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

dub wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Warlord works perfectly fine as the 'breaking point' for their relationship.
I totally disagree. In "Warlord" she was being controlled by an alien, so that doesn't count. Then based on dialogue in subsequent episodes we're supposed to believe they broke up for real but I guess we just didn't see it, or maybe what we saw was real. Sorry, that's not how I took it at all. Perhaps one could analyze it and show how it makes sense on paper, but that's no substitute for how it made me feel actually watching it unfold. It sucked. And where where was the big emotional breakdown from Neelix when Kes finally left for good in "The Gift?" Neelix was very selfish and child-like with his feelings and territorial over Kes, and to ignore all of that when Kes actually left was to ignore some potential growth for his character. There could have been some wonderfully emotional scenes with him there. In this case, they blew it.
Kes specifically stated that Ocampa mate for life. I like that a third party terminated the relationship, something she never would have done herself... but after the fact Kes did realize that was for the best and there was so much more for her out there, when it came time to reconcile or not. I do think that should've gotten a scene at some point however.
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Old November 7 2013, 09:54 AM   #105
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Of course they mate for life, they don't even make it to the seven year itch before they drop dead.

Interesting point though.. Kes is totally outside of her social norm and she has no role models to follow for such.
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