RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,328
Posts: 5,353,102
Members: 24,618
Currently online: 726
Newest member: jmacenulty

TrekToday headlines

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 186 56.02%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 57 17.17%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 38 11.45%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 45 13.55%
I don't know. 6 1.81%
Voters: 332. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 24 2013, 03:50 PM   #451
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
That's what nuTrek did, though. They invented a "new" Kirk, Spock, etc. that are not true to the original characters.
They're the same characters. Every time a new writer, director, and actor take on an existing character they're going to be slightly different, of course. Different people play Hamlet, for instance, and every different performance is going to highlight a different aspect of the character. A thin, wispy little goth kid is going to play a different Hamlet than a big burly guy. It's still the same character.

They can call it Star Trek, but if it doesn't FEEL like Star Trek, I'm not going to accept it as such. To me it has the feel of Abrams saying, "I'd like to make a space movie, with lots of young, pretty people as the crew. Nah, it doesn't matter if they can act. Nobody cares about that, as long as we have enough FX and explodey things. Now what's the best marketing angle we can use to get people to see this thing? Oh, yeah - use the character names from Star Trek! Sure, we'll make the actors look sorta vaguely like the originals, rip off elements of the old TV episodes, and tell everybody it's new and fresh! Who's gonna notice?"
Now I'm really confused about your point. You don't like the Abrams movies; neither do I. But is it Abrams specific vision you dislike or would you hate any reboot? If you'd hate any reboot, then you wouldn't have accepted Abrams movies no matter how good they were. If it's merely Abrams version you hate, then in that case what would be your objection to a good reboot?
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 04:14 PM   #452
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Exactly. Getting back to the OT, the quality of any given Trek project has nothing to do with whether it's set in the prime timeline or not.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 04:19 PM   #453
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
They can call it Star Trek, but if it doesn't FEEL like Star Trek, I'm not going to accept it as such.
It felt like "Star Trek" to me and many other fans of TOS.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 04:36 PM   #454
bbjeg
Vice Admiral
 
bbjeg's Avatar
 
Location: ˙ɐlnqǝu sıɥʇ uı ʞɔnʇS
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

The alternate reality angle makes it feel like "Star Trek" to me. Does the Mirror Universe feel like "Star Trek"?
bbjeg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 04:49 PM   #455
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

TNG doesn't feel much like TOS, Voyager doesn't feel much like DS9. TMP doesn't feel much like TOS, even! It's one of those "each to his/her own" things.

To me, it felt like Star Trek with a much-needed shot of cordrazine
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 05:07 PM   #456
bbjeg
Vice Admiral
 
bbjeg's Avatar
 
Location: ˙ɐlnqǝu sıɥʇ uı ʞɔnʇS
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
TNG doesn't feel much like TOS,
Except when referencing to TOS, right?
Voyager doesn't feel much like DS9,
I always took Voyager as an extended DS9 episode.

TMP doesn't feel much like TOS, even!
What?
To me, it felt like Star Trek with a much-needed shot of cordrazine
Star Trek in general to me is a much-needed shot of cordrazine.
bbjeg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 05:22 PM   #457
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I'm referring to the way the characters interact. That is what establishes the "feel" of a show for me. Stargate SG-1 feels more like TOS than TNG does, at least IMO.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 05:44 PM   #458
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Your Batman references have no meaning to me, since I've never seen the original TV series, never read the comics, never seen any of the movies, or anything else about Batman. I have a vague idea of the themes and characters, based on all the references I've seen and heard over the years, but I'm not going to discuss Batman with you (or Sherlock Holmes, for the same reason).
You're missing the point. It isn't about Batman or Sherlock Holmes or any other particular character or series. Feel free to substitute Tarzan or Dracula or Robin Hood or The Three Musketeers or the Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew or the Arthurian mythos or whatever perennially popular works of fiction you are familiar with. My point is that the basic idea-- a human child raised by apes to be king of the jungle or whatever--is not dependent on the specific "continuity" of whatever the last theatrical version was. Tarzan is Tarzan, regardless if some new versions picks up where the previous movies or TV series left off. And there's no reason to invent a "new" ape-man every time you want to revive the series.

Ditto for Star Trek. It's a concept, not a history book.
I vaguely remember seeing Tarzan movies as a child. As a teenager, I collected and read the novels, along with some other Edgar Rice Burroughs books. As I recall, the comics I read were quite faithful to the books (I still have some of those comics, and all the books). I've seen Greystoke, although it was a long time ago and I don't remember much of it.
Again, the point isn't your familiarity with Tarzan or any particular series. I'm trying to talk about enduring characters and series in general.

For the sake of argument, let's invent an imaginary series, Teenage Samurai Vampires, that had a good long run but is now in need of a facelift.

What I'm saying is that as long as you have the Teenage Samurai Vampires doing teenage samurai vampire stuff, you're still doing Teenage Samurai Vampires. You don't have to set it in the same "timeline" as the previous cycle of movies, tv shows, and comic books, or accept every previous episode as "canon."

And, please, don't reply by saying that you don't care about teenage vampire samurais. That's not the point.

Rebooting STAR TREK is no different than rebooting any other beloved fictional property, be it PLANET OF THE APES, LOGAN'S RUN . . . or TEENAGE SAMURAI VAMPIRES.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com

Last edited by Greg Cox; October 24 2013 at 05:55 PM.
Greg Cox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 07:03 PM   #459
Timewalker
Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady
 
Timewalker's Avatar
 
Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
That's what nuTrek did, though. They invented a "new" Kirk, Spock, etc. that are not true to the original characters.
They're the same characters. Every time a new writer, director, and actor take on an existing character they're going to be slightly different, of course. Different people play Hamlet, for instance, and every different performance is going to highlight a different aspect of the character. A thin, wispy little goth kid is going to play a different Hamlet than a big burly guy. It's still the same character.
The thing is, the characters can have the same names, they can say the same lines, but what they look like and how they say their lines and perform the actions make a huge difference. For example, Hamlet: I loved the Mel Gibson movie. It seems more period, more authentic. But Kenneth Branagh's version? Hated it, and that's saying something, because I enjoyed his Henry V, and Much Ado About Nothing.

They can call it Star Trek, but if it doesn't FEEL like Star Trek, I'm not going to accept it as such. To me it has the feel of Abrams saying, "I'd like to make a space movie, with lots of young, pretty people as the crew. Nah, it doesn't matter if they can act. Nobody cares about that, as long as we have enough FX and explodey things. Now what's the best marketing angle we can use to get people to see this thing? Oh, yeah - use the character names from Star Trek! Sure, we'll make the actors look sorta vaguely like the originals, rip off elements of the old TV episodes, and tell everybody it's new and fresh! Who's gonna notice?"
Now I'm really confused about your point. You don't like the Abrams movies; neither do I. But is it Abrams specific vision you dislike or would you hate any reboot? If you'd hate any reboot, then you wouldn't have accepted Abrams movies no matter how good they were. If it's merely Abrams version you hate, then in that case what would be your objection to a good reboot?
When I watched the 2009 movie, I wanted to find something to like about it. After all, even an abomination like Star Trek V had a few good quotable lines. Unfortunately, I didn't even find that in the 2009 movie. Yes, I hate the Abrams stuff. It's like he dressed up a bunch of people and gave them lines to say, but nothing feels right.

Others have mentioned the "show, not tell" aspect of storytelling. We're told a lot about nuKirk. But I never actually saw it. If any Star Trek TV show or movie is going to tell me that a character is smart, savvy, friends with someone, etc. they need to do more than say it - the characters' voices, facial expressions, and body language have to make me believe it. And the Abrams' movie actors failed to do that.

As to your question of whether I'd hate any reboot? That depends on the reboot, doesn't it?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
They can call it Star Trek, but if it doesn't FEEL like Star Trek, I'm not going to accept it as such.
It felt like "Star Trek" to me and many other fans of TOS.
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. There are other people who feel the opposite. I'm not the only person on this forum who doesn't think it feels like Star Trek.

Big Boo wrote: View Post
The alternate reality angle makes it feel like "Star Trek" to me. Does the Mirror Universe feel like "Star Trek"?
Not really. It feels experimental - a "what if" that may be fun to play with, but I can't imagine such a society being viable for long - certainly not producing the same characters in the same settings.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
You're missing the point. It isn't about Batman or Sherlock Holmes or any other particular character or series. Feel free to substitute Tarzan or Dracula or Robin Hood or The Three Musketeers or the Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew or the Arthurian mythos or whatever perennially popular works of fiction you are familiar with. My point is that the basic idea-- a human child raised by apes to be king of the jungle or whatever--is not dependent on the specific "continuity" of whatever the last theatrical version was. Tarzan is Tarzan, regardless if some new versions picks up where the previous movies or TV series left off. And there's no reason to invent a "new" ape-man every time you want to revive the series.

Ditto for Star Trek. It's a concept, not a history book.
I vaguely remember seeing Tarzan movies as a child. As a teenager, I collected and read the novels, along with some other Edgar Rice Burroughs books. As I recall, the comics I read were quite faithful to the books (I still have some of those comics, and all the books). I've seen Greystoke, although it was a long time ago and I don't remember much of it.
Again, the point isn't your familiarity with Tarzan or any particular series. I'm trying to talk about enduring characters and series in general.

For the sake of argument, let's invent an imaginary series, Teenage Samurai Vampires, that had a good long run but is now in need of a facelift.

What I'm saying is that as long as you have the Teenage Samurai Vampires doing teenage samurai vampire stuff, you're still doing Teenage Samurai Vampires. You don't have to set it in the same "timeline" as the previous cycle of movies, tv shows, and comic books, or accept every previous episode as "canon."

And, please, don't reply by saying that you don't care about teenage vampire samurais. That's not the point.

Rebooting STAR TREK is no different than rebooting any other beloved fictional property, be it PLANET OF THE APES, LOGAN'S RUN . . . or TEENAGE SAMURAI VAMPIRES.
It depends on HOW you do it. It depends on whether or not the new actors can make it convincing. It depends on whether the storyline makes sense and is respectful of what's already been established.

Let's take Logan's Run, for example. I've read the original novels. I've seen the Michael York movie. The movie is different from the book, but the major elements are still intact - the society is controlled by a computer, and people have a limited number of years they're allowed to live. In both of them, Logan is a Sandman who decides to run, and both he and Jessica are pursued by Francis. Logan and Jessica fall in love, and in the end they prevail against the computer that controls everything.

The TV series changes a few things - adds characters and other SF elements. However, the essential core of the series is similar to the movie and true to the spirit of the original novel, so I would count that as a "reimagining" that works. I still prefer the original, mind you. But I love the movie and don't hate the TV series.
__________________
"Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"

For some great Original Series fanfic, check out the Valjiir Continuum!
Timewalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 07:47 PM   #460
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
They can call it Star Trek, but if it doesn't FEEL like Star Trek, I'm not going to accept it as such.
It felt like "Star Trek" to me and many other fans of TOS.
This production, STID in particularly, is the closest anything has felt to the old spirit of Trek and enjoyment I had from it in nearly 20 years.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 08:20 PM   #461
Enterprise is Great
Rear Admiral
 
Enterprise is Great's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Teenage Samurai Vampires sounds awesome!
__________________
JJverse Star Trek...ROCKED on May 17, 2013 and beyond!
Enterprise is Great is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 08:37 PM   #462
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Chrysalis wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
They can call it Star Trek, but if it doesn't FEEL like Star Trek, I'm not going to accept it as such.
It felt like "Star Trek" to me and many other fans of TOS.
This production, STID in particularly, is the closest anything has felt to the old spirit of Trek and enjoyment I had from it in nearly 20 years.
Star Trek Into Darkness is the most fun I've had with Trek since seeing The Undiscovered Country in theaters in 1991.

I'm sure plenty of people roll their eyes because I keep going on about how Trek should be fun. But if I'm not having a good time, what's the point of watching?
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 08:42 PM   #463
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Chrysalis wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

It felt like "Star Trek" to me and many other fans of TOS.
This production, STID in particularly, is the closest anything has felt to the old spirit of Trek and enjoyment I had from it in nearly 20 years.
Star Trek Into Darkness is the most fun I've had with Trek since seeing The Undiscovered Country in theaters in 1991.

I'm sure plenty of people roll their eyes because I keep going on about how Trek should be fun. But if I'm not having a good time, what's the point of watching?
Well that's the point really, and everytime I've watched this movie or seen it with others, it's the most enjoyment I or they have had from Trek in years.

As it should be. That's one major reason I don't want the continuation of what we had before, it wasn't fun anymore, not for a good long while.

Well, Enterprise did have it's moments and I have it on DVD for that. Buty going forward I want someone to put the simple fun and thrill back into Star Trek.

Abrams is going a fine job, audience figures and disc sales are a good indication the audience at large thinks so too, I can only hope anyone who takes over does as well or better.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 08:47 PM   #464
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Chrysalis wrote: View Post
Well, Enterprise did have it's moments and I have it on DVD for that. Buty going forward I want someone to put the simple fun and thrill back into Star Trek.
"Bound" is my favorite episode of Enterprise because it is so fun too watch and I swear Gene's ghost was in the room with whoever wrote the script.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 08:50 PM   #465
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Chrysalis wrote: View Post
Well, Enterprise did have it's moments and I have it on DVD for that. Buty going forward I want someone to put the simple fun and thrill back into Star Trek.
"Bound" is my favorite episode of Enterprise because it is so fun too watch and I swear Gene's ghost was in the room with whoever wrote the script.
I saw that one only last week, it was nice to see the sisters back in the latest Enterprise novel.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
prime timeline, prime trek

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.