RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,782
Posts: 5,434,615
Members: 24,841
Currently online: 494
Newest member: annieslc

TrekToday headlines

Trek Comics Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 23

German Volkswagen Campaign Features Trek Actors
By: T'Bonz on Sep 23

Shatner And Nimoy In Trek 3?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 23

The Art of John Alvin Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 23

Episode Four of The Red Shirt Diaries
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Star Trek: The Compendium Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Orci Drops Rangers Project
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Retro Review: Image in the Sand
By: Michelle on Sep 20

Star Trek: Shadows Of Tyranny Casting Call
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

USS Vengeance And More Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 22 2013, 10:28 PM   #31
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Scaredface wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Scaredface wrote: View Post
Old Kirk could have appeared during the mind meld in the first movie. It would have been brief but memorable.
The problem is, that would have called attention to the recasting, like including a clip of Sean Connery in Casino Royale. Or including a clip of Katie Holmes in The Dark Knight.

They got away with including Quinto and Nimoy in the same movie because the age differential was so extreme (Young Spock and Ancient Spock) that you could pretend that they were the same character, separated by a long lifetime of experience. But a shot of Shatner might strain our suspension of disbelief . . . .
I don't like recasting either but I make certain allowances if a different actor plays a much older or much younger version of a character and if the two look alike for the most part. In the case of Shatner and Pine, they're similar enough and the age gap is big enough that I could have accepted seeing them in the same movie..
Just to be clear, I have no problem with recasting, which is a long and honorable tradition in movies and television. I was just pointing out the structural difficulty of incorporating images of the previous actor in a film featuring the new one.

Recasting is fine as long we all accept the conceit that, say, Jim Rhodes always looked like Don Cheadle, or that Darren Stevens always looked like Dick Sargent. But you probably don't want to shatter that illusion by reminding the viewer that, hey, this is what the other guy looked like, remember him?
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2013, 11:03 PM   #32
Galileo7
Fleet Captain
 
Galileo7's Avatar
 
Location: U.S.A.
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
I think new audiences probably wouldn't care either way. But old timers would enjoy seeing a tie in from the old universe. Sort of like a nod to them.

Spock prime was totally unnecessary in the second film, but I thought he worked well in the first one.

Would have been interesting to have Shatner in the second movie as something. Maybe Kirk's grandfather? Heck I don't know? I would have appreciated it.
Agree on all thoughts here.
Galileo7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23 2013, 01:50 AM   #33
mymatty
Ensign
 
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

They wrote an ending for the 2009 film that included a cameo for William Shatner, but he didn't want to be in the movie if it wasn't for a major role. Here it is:


ALTERNATE SCENE B

SPOCK PRIME
Then I ask that you do yourself a
favor… put away logic, and do what
feels right. The world you’ve inherited
lives in the shadow of incalculable
devastation… but there’s no reason you
must face it alone.

And from around his neck, he removes the PENDANT that
until now, we’ve only caught glimpses of. Places it on
the table beside his younger self. The feeling in his
eyes is profound…

SPOCK PRIME (CONT’D)
This was a gift to me. Representing…
a dream. One we were unable to fulfill.
(softly)
The way you can now.

And moves to the door. Stops. Offers the VULCAN SALUTE:

SPOCK PRIME (CONT’D)
As my customary farewell would appear
oddly self serving, I will simply say…
good luck.

Their eyes hold. Spock turns, disappearing into the
corridor. Young Spock stares at the empty doorway a
beat, his mind a jumble of thoughts. Looks to the
pendant… and realizes it’s a HOLO-EMITTER. After
considering a beat, he hits an activation button and a
MOVING HOLOGRAPHIC MESSAGE materializes before him:

CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK. WILLIAM SHATNER. As always,
brash, wry, confident — and SINGING:

KIRK/ SHATNER
Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to
you…
(stops, grins)
I know I know, it’s illogical to
celebrate something you had nothing to do
with, but I haven’t had the chance to
congratulate you on your appointment to
the ambassadorship so I thought I’d seize
the occasion… Bravo, Spock — they tell
me your first mission may take you away
for awhile, so I’ll be the first to wish
you luck… and to say…
(beat, emotional)
I miss you, old friend.

… and we’re PUSHING IN on Young Spock, taking in the
image of Kirk’s future self, the message, but above all —
the clear, unquestionable friendship these two men had…

INT. CORRIDOR – CONTINUOUS

As Spock Prime walks off down the corridor, he passes
right by a man conferring with a nurse — the man pauses,
turns… it’s SAREK. Suddenly overcome by a feeling that
the stranger who’s just passed him is… oddly familiar.

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I suppose I’d always imagined us…
outgrowing Starfleet together. Watching
life swing us into our Emeritus years…

INT. STARBASE ONE – HANGAR – ETERNAL NIGHT

MUSIC BUILDING — glass walls reveal THE ENTERPRISE at
dock, UTILITY CRAFTS floating around it, repairing.
Standing at attention in rows, THE ENTERPRISE CREW —
over four hundred of them wearing DRESS UNIFORMS — TRACK
DOWN the faces, all proud:

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I look around at the new cadets now and
can’t help thinking… has it really been
so long? Wasn’t it only yesterday we
stepped onto the Enterprise as boys?
That I had to prove to the crew I
deserved command… and their respect?

And we STOP ON YOUNG KIRK. Composed, focused, proud. A
man. And to every fan’s delight, finally wearing his
YELLOW SHIRT. The FEDERATION COMMANDANT stands at a
podium:

COMMANDANT
This assembly calls Captain James
Tiberius Kirk…

Kirk breaks from formation, pivots, marches down the
hangar — past UHURA… SULU… CHEKOV… SCOTTY. All
Beaming. Notably absent, is Spock. Kirk ascends the
stairs, snaps to attention:

COMMANDANT (CONT’D)
Your inspirational valor and supreme
dedication to your comrades are in
keeping with the highest traditions of
service and reflect utmost credit to
yourself, your crew, and the Federation.
By Starfleet Order 28455, you are hereby
directed to report to Commanding Officer,
USS Enterprise, for duty as his relief.

Kirk turns. Walks to… PIKE. In a wheelchair now,
wearing an ADMIRAL’S UNIFORM. Overnight, his hair’s
turned totally grey — but despite his trauma, his
pride’s overwhelming. They SALUTE each other:

KIRK
I relieve you, Sir.


PIKE
… I am relieved.

He opens a BOX in his lap — glorious in repose, a MEDAL:

PIKE (CONT’D)
And as Fleet Admiral, for your… unique
solution to the Kobayashi Maru, it’s my
honor to award you with a commendation
for original thinking.

Pike containing a smirk, pins the medal to Kirk’s
chest…

PIKE (CONT’D)
(a touch choked)
Congratulations, Captain.

KIRK
Thank you, Sir.

Kirk turns to the crowd. Eyes shining. WILD APPLAUSE.
OUR MUSIC SOARS. Bones leans in to Sulu, rolling his
eyes:

BONES
… Same ship, different day.

As Kirk rejoins his crew for hugs and congratulations, we
go to the BACK of the hangar… SPOCK PRIME. Watching.
Moved beyond words. He turns and leaves them to it… as
he goes…

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I know what you’d say — ‘It’s their turn
now, Jim…’ And of course you’re
right… but it got me thinking:

INT. STARFLEET HOSPITAL – EARTH – DAY

Our montage comes full circle as we END on Kirk’s
transmission:

KIRK/SHATNER
Who’s to say we can’t go one more round?
By the last tally, only twenty five
percent of the galaxy’s been chartered…
I’d call that negligent. Criminal even —
an invitation. You once said being a
starship captain was my first, best
destiny… if that’s true, then yours is
to be by my side. If there’s any true
logic to the universe… we’ll end up on
that bridge again someday.

Stops, grins. Because this is the part he needs to say
most…

KIRK/SHATNER
Admit it, Spock. For people like us, the
journey itself… is home.

Young Spock’s face. Lost in feelings that flood through
him.
http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read...lliam-shatner/
mymatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23 2013, 03:19 AM   #34
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Scaredface wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
The problem is, that would have called attention to the recasting, like including a clip of Sean Connery in Casino Royale. Or including a clip of Katie Holmes in The Dark Knight.

They got away with including Quinto and Nimoy in the same movie because the age differential was so extreme (Young Spock and Ancient Spock) that you could pretend that they were the same character, separated by a long lifetime of experience. But a shot of Shatner might strain our suspension of disbelief . . . .
I don't like recasting either but I make certain allowances if a different actor plays a much older or much younger version of a character and if the two look alike for the most part. In the case of Shatner and Pine, they're similar enough and the age gap is big enough that I could have accepted seeing them in the same movie..
Just to be clear, I have no problem with recasting, which is a long and honorable tradition in movies and television. I was just pointing out the structural difficulty of incorporating images of the previous actor in a film featuring the new one.

Recasting is fine as long we all accept the conceit that, say, Jim Rhodes always looked like Don Cheadle, or that Darren Stevens always looked like Dick Sargent. But you probably don't want to shatter that illusion by reminding the viewer that, hey, this is what the other guy looked like, remember him?
This post reminds me of the TV Trope page on this matter
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23 2013, 04:09 AM   #35
OpenMaw
Commander
 
OpenMaw's Avatar
 
Location: Everett, Washington
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

mymatty wrote: View Post
They wrote an ending for the 2009 film that included a cameo for William Shatner, but he didn't want to be in the movie if it wasn't for a major role. Here it is:

- snip -

http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read...lliam-shatner/
That was beautiful. I feel somewhat cheated!
__________________
"Paradise protests too much." SFDebris
OpenMaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23 2013, 04:13 AM   #36
Agent Richard07
Admiral
 
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

With Back to the Future, you could argue that changes to the timeline resulted in his girlfriend looking different. The only thing you'd have to ignore is the reshot scene.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Recasting is fine as long we all accept the conceit that, say, Jim Rhodes always looked like Don Cheadle, or that Darren Stevens always looked like Dick Sargent.
Now that's the kind of recasting that bugs me.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
But you probably don't want to shatter that illusion by reminding the viewer that, hey, this is what the other guy looked like, remember him?
Fair enough.

I heard about that end scene. Sounds better than I thought it would be. And I thought that Shatner turned it down but the article states that they didn't even ask him because they heard that he didn't do cameos.
Agent Richard07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23 2013, 10:30 AM   #37
Khan 2.0
Commander
 
Khan 2.0's Avatar
 
Location: earth...but when?...spock?
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

no ones digs my Deadly Years re-imagined opening?
Khan 2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23 2013, 01:25 PM   #38
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

I found it amusing and wouldn't mind seeing it but I consider it unlikely as I doubt they'd want to make the Romulan presence, if there is one at all, that minor. But as Shatner will not be in the next film, the point is moot.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23 2013, 04:41 PM   #39
Cyke101
Rear Admiral
 
Cyke101's Avatar
 
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
mymatty wrote: View Post
They wrote an ending for the 2009 film that included a cameo for William Shatner, but he didn't want to be in the movie if it wasn't for a major role. Here it is:

- snip -

http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read...lliam-shatner/
That was beautiful. I feel somewhat cheated!
Wow. I doubt it would have quelled the uproar over the 2009 movie, but it addressed Kirk's rapid ascendancy to captain (Kirk Prime: Do I have to prove to the crew that I deserve their respect?), really put a cap on the theme of a new journey, and it evokes the amazing intro about birth and life -- It would have been neat to see baby Kirk at the beginning and then "Emeritus Years" Kirk (great line, by the way) at the end.

One pet peeve of mine was that we didn't see the ramifications of the Kobayashi Maru test and Kirk's commendation. That ending would have shown it.

Also, it's neat to note that that means Spock got his ambassadorship after TUC, but I suppose that makes sense for it to be part of the aftermath of that movie, but before Generations.
__________________
“You do not use science in order to prove yourself right, you use science in order to become right.”
Cyke101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23 2013, 08:36 PM   #40
MakeshiftPython
Captain
 
MakeshiftPython's Avatar
 
Location: Ladies love Riker's beard.
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Eh, the whole destiny angle would have been my biggest gripe of that cameo. That Young Spock and Kirk only become friends because Future Spock tells them both its their destiny to be friends, rather than having the two young characters actually discover that together through their adventures.
MakeshiftPython is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23 2013, 10:59 PM   #41
OpenMaw
Commander
 
OpenMaw's Avatar
 
Location: Everett, Washington
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Except that's already still in the movie when Spock says "Because you needed each other." It is their destiny according to 09 and ID for these two to be friends, no matter the universe. Even in the Mirror Universe there was some hint that, even as different as that universe is, Kirk and Spock were friends.
__________________
"Paradise protests too much." SFDebris
OpenMaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2013, 11:24 PM   #42
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

daveyNY wrote: View Post
Have Shatner do a Harcourt Fenton Mudd camo in JJ-Trek III.

He's certainly heavy enough and would probably pull it off with quite a bit of finesse.

Yes. Oh boy, yes. Kirk as Mudd would be da bomb.

Or

Have the nucast walk down a memorial hallway lined with holos of great captains dating back to whenever. One holo is not a holo, it's Shat Easter egg style.
__________________
"I'm not the commander" - Tim Allen
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 25 2013, 04:13 AM   #43
Mr_Homn
Captain
 
Mr_Homn's Avatar
 
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

I still think he would have been good as a bald bolian bartender. Just serve a drink to Kirk, maybe make one snide comment, get a huge laugh from the audience, and that's it. It would have been fantastic to finally see a bald shatner, even if he's in blue makeup. And he'd make one hell of a bartender.
__________________
"Thank you.. for the drinks."
Mr_Homn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 25 2013, 05:40 PM   #44
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

There's no need for Shatner, but I wouldn't be surprised if they squished him into the next movie in a similar manner to Spock Prime in ID. 50th anniversary and all...
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 25 2013, 08:03 PM   #45
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Land of Enchantment
Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

^
Dude, there's always a need for Shatner.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:30 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.