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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old October 19 2013, 07:08 PM   #31
Peach Wookiee
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

ETA: In regard to the Picard and Riker hugging scene...
That scene was hysterical.
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Old October 19 2013, 08:54 PM   #32
Trekker4747
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
One of the girls on campus was 20, but she was what used to be described as a midget (not a dwarf). Technically, she had proportionate dwarfism, with no deformities of the body.
A "homunculus," a perfectly proportioned small person.

(thank you big bang theory)

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Yeah, the puberty thing is big. In truth, she would NOT be the same person emotionally, because her hormones would be so different.
There's also the likelihood that Keiko had a intact hymen again, and so would physically "lose" her virginity to Miles.

And.... there it is. We're now on Chris Hannsen's watch list and now have to notify our neighbors when we move in. Thanks for that. There was zero call to go there.
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Old October 19 2013, 09:05 PM   #33
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

Creepy

Now Colm's character Durant in Hell on Wheels wouldn't have cared--or at least some of the folks then.


I think you had child brides in ancient times--but they were actually in waiting--arrainged pre-planned things...


Then too a hundred years ago, people married young because they died young. I heard it said that the woman in one of the more famous dust-bowl photographs was actually only in her 20's. And there was that Couples therapy woman who was a teen bridge who actually looked in her 30's


I still think of myself as a teenager--and yet there are folks who look older than me who are a decade younger. Hormones in milk I guess.


Something that might even be stranger than the situation in question here is this. I think one of our Presidents offered a pension not just for Civil War vets but their spouses. Now some of you have heard of the tale of the worlds oldest living confederate widow.


No, they don't remember the civil war, they were just forced by their poor parents (or starvation) to marry some old creep for survival. The groom would do the bride the very great favor of dying--although there have been tales of the girls then having consorts more there own age--in case the wedding was just for title.


If not the girl would have children early in life, and when they grew up, she could be independantly wealthy, one way or the other.


I'm thinking that the suffragettes we all imagine to be wearing big dresses and driving the old phone booth type electric cars were the result of such odd pairings--and their disgust actually helped Womens Rights. Only with that pension and the death of overbearing husbands could independant action exist...go figure.



Now I seem to remember a C-SPAN author, a woman who talked about a native american nation that encouraged mediocrity. If you loved a violin too much, you were to smash it. They had an odd habit of keeping young folks of different genders apart. You don't need a youth culture to detach and form--or you get unwanted pregnancies. Thier solution--of all things, was for the first...um..experience of each young man to be with a much much older woman and vice versa.


Now all of us grew up in the post Lewis Carrol days with extended childhoods. Now, you have to graduate college and be in mid to late 20s before you are a real person--also un-natural with respect to biology. In the middle ages, children were painted as little adults--maybe this is what the Governor meant by "Men and Woeman" in THE WALKING DEAD.


Let's hope it doesn't get back to that.
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Old October 19 2013, 09:23 PM   #34
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Keiko's clearly capable of consent though her form seemed distinctly pre-puberty so I'm not sure how it would have worked.

Hugging and having adult conversations certainly is not wrong but I think puberty is a cutoff for the sexual situation. If it were a permanent situation, and Keiko was through puberty, I think O'Brien would have adjusted to it. ...
This echoes my thoughts on the matter. It would be awkward at first, but she's still an adult, still his wife, and still the same, intellectually and emotionally. He could adjust.
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Old October 19 2013, 09:28 PM   #35
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

But she isn't *exactly* the same emotionally. The hormones of a pre-teen to teenage girl are very different than the hormones of an adult woman. That's have a pretty big impact on her emotions as she grew-up.
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Old October 19 2013, 09:30 PM   #36
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
But she isn't *exactly* the same emotionally. The hormones of a pre-teen to teenage girl are very different than the hormones of an adult woman. That's have a pretty big impact on her emotions as she grew-up.
Except that she retained all of her emotional intellect. She's just in a younger body. Remember, this is Star Trek technomagic, where DNA de-evolves you and re-evolves you in the same episode.
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Old October 21 2013, 12:05 AM   #37
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

Rainbow Dash wrote: View Post
She's just in a younger body.
But Keiko isn't just in "a younger body," she is now physically a child. It's not like she's suddenly twenty-one again.

What if instead she were four years old. Still okay?

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Old October 21 2013, 12:22 AM   #38
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

Wow... if that's okay the future is pedo friendly as long as you have access to a transporter....
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Last edited by R. Star; October 21 2013 at 12:49 AM.
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Old October 21 2013, 12:24 AM   #39
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

I don't think I even understand this thread.

It's been a couple decades since I saw the episode, but I don't remember sex even having anything to do with this scene. As I recall, the scene was simply Miles being uncomfortable showing affection to Keiko, prompting the two to wonder if their relationship could transcend Keiko's physical transformation. Molly didn't recognize Keiko as her mother and Miles had a hard time seeing her as his wife. I don't think either Miles or Keiko were worried about "getting off." That wasn't the issue, it was how they were going to preserve their relationship and their family, or if they were going to have to readjust Keiko's role in the family. There was no dilemma about whether or not they should have sex.
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Old October 21 2013, 12:58 AM   #40
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

publiusr wrote: View Post
I think you had child brides in ancient times--but they were actually in waiting--arrainged pre-planned things...
Read a newspaper lately? There are child brides in the Middle East. The most recent example I can think of is a 10-year-old who died when her much-older bridegroom decided he couldn't wait 8 or 10 years to consummate the marriage. She was so badly injured, it killed her.

Also, there are a couple of Mormon offshoot groups who regularly traffick in child brides. They take young girls across the Canada/US border, and when the Canadian authorities try to stop it, the leaders of these groups wail about "freedom of religion". Apparently freedom of religion trumps minor things like age of consent, statutory rape, etc.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I don't think I even understand this thread.

It's been a couple decades since I saw the episode, but I don't remember sex even having anything to do with this scene. As I recall, the scene was simply Miles being uncomfortable showing affection to Keiko, prompting the two to wonder if their relationship could transcend Keiko's physical transformation. Molly didn't recognize Keiko as her mother and Miles had a hard time seeing her as his wife. I don't think either Miles or Keiko were worried about "getting off." That wasn't the issue, it was how they were going to preserve their relationship and their family, or if they were going to have to readjust Keiko's role in the family. There was no dilemma about whether or not they should have sex.
Of course sex was a part of it. Or are you imagining that Miles wasn't in the slightest way wondering what would happen to his sex life if he had to wait for his formerly physically adult wife to grow up all over again? And the Miles O'Brien we knew is an honorable man who would never take advantage of a child - even if the child wanted it. To him, it just wouldn't be the right thing to do. Period. Therefore, he was uncomfortable.

If TNG had been on one of the cable channels where the standards are more relaxed, they could have gone further into this issue with a line or two of dialogue. The regular network standards wouldn't have allowed that, so the audience is left to extrapolate for themselves that Miles was indeed feeling uncomfortable at physically interacting as a husband with a female who was physically a child.
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Old October 21 2013, 01:00 AM   #41
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

The question is whether or not they could have continued their marriage or physical relationship if Keiko was "stuck" that way.

It obviously wasn't a topic broached in the episode (for obvious reasons) but it *is* one to consider. What would the ramifications have been if Keiko couldn't have been brought back to adulthood.

Read a newspaper lately? There are child brides in the Middle East.
Much of the Middle East? Not a good example of civilization. That child brides exist there is hardly evidence or argument for anything. A lot of things happen over there that don't happen in other developed parts of the world. Even here with the FLDS groups you mention, it's hardly an example of anything other than scatter groups of people who do things. By and large, child brides is pretty damn rare and widely seen as unacceptable.
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Old October 21 2013, 01:12 AM   #42
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

^ Well, Keiko wouldn't be stuck...all indications are that if they hadn't reversed the effect, she would continue to age normally from that point. In which case I guess she and Miles would wait until her physical body was old enough before they got 'romantic' again.
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Old October 21 2013, 01:40 AM   #43
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The question is whether or not they could have continued their marriage or physical relationship if Keiko was "stuck" that way.

It obviously wasn't a topic broached in the episode (for obvious reasons) but it *is* one to consider. What would the ramifications have been if Keiko couldn't have been brought back to adulthood.

Read a newspaper lately? There are child brides in the Middle East.
Much of the Middle East? Not a good example of civilization. That child brides exist there is hardly evidence or argument for anything. A lot of things happen over there that don't happen in other developed parts of the world. Even here with the FLDS groups you mention, it's hardly an example of anything other than scatter groups of people who do things. By and large, child brides is pretty damn rare and widely seen as unacceptable.
The point I was replying to made it seem as though child brides haven't been around since "ancient times." It's obvious from reading any newspaper or online source that child brides are around right now. The location where it occurs is unimportant for this discussion. Child brides exist in the here and now.

And please note that I'm not saying it's acceptable. I find it reprehensible, no matter when/where/who is involved.
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Old October 21 2013, 01:52 AM   #44
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
^ Well, Keiko wouldn't be stuck...all indications are that if they hadn't reversed the effect, she would continue to age normally from that point. In which case I guess she and Miles would wait until her physical body was old enough before they got 'romantic' again.
True she wasn't stuck as a child but by "stuck" I meant stuck as a child who had to re-age into an adult. For all they knew this was going to be the case until the magic wand, er, transporter solution was devised at the end of the episode.
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Old October 21 2013, 02:03 AM   #45
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Re: The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Wow... if that's okay the future is pedo friendly as long as you have access to a transporter....
Or just your own holodeck.



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