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Old October 13 2013, 05:57 AM   #211
JD
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

I'm surprised by the reaction to the episode here. I thought it was great. I wouldn't really call it a stand alone or episode or even say that it had nothing to do with the season's plot. It didn't focus on the Spirits/Civil War arc, but we did deal with the attack from the previous episode, we got more stuff with Bolin's acting, and of course the stuff with Varik. I thought Bolin's movers were funny, and it was nice getting more Asami again.
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Old October 13 2013, 06:12 AM   #212
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

I wouldn't call it standalone; we learned that Varrik was instigating the Water Tribe civil war for war profiteering. It just didn't star Korra or Tenzin.
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Old October 13 2013, 06:27 AM   #213
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

I thought it was a great episode. It was nice to see one that focused primarily on Mako, Bolin and Asami rather than Korra and Tenzin. I wasn't a huge fan of Mako in the first season, I thought he was kind of bland then, but I've been enjoying him more this season.
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Old October 13 2013, 06:29 AM   #214
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

I'm enjoying him more this season because he's a cop and not a pro-bender. I really did not like the entire pro-bending storyline. And I like the fact that he's trying to follow the rule of law while his girlfriend is off playing rebel without a cause.
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Old October 13 2013, 09:47 PM   #215
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

gumble grumble

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Old October 19 2013, 03:37 AM   #216
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

"Beginnings"

What an incredible episode. I was absolutely riveted for every single second. My one huge complaint? The story of Yun should have been an entire season. It was amazing!

I particularly interested to learn the first human civilizations lived on the backs of Lion Turtles who lent them the elements. I'd like to have learned more about the Lion Turtles and their motivations. Why did they pick those elements? Why did they trust the humans with it?

I was hoping Koh the Face Stealer's origin would be here. Oh well. I was hoping he would turn out to be the oasis guardian or the main evil spirit.

Anybody else think the spirit guardian of the oasis looked a lot like Momo?

Looks like this season/book is going to be about Korra defeating the great evil spirit for another 10,000 years. This is a battle on a larger and more important scale than anything Aang did!
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Old October 19 2013, 04:43 AM   #217
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

"Beginnings" was one of the best Avatar episodes ive ever seen. this show is only getting better. and now, the stakes are high.
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Old October 19 2013, 06:25 AM   #218
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

"Beginnings" was indeed a great two-parter and now this season's story has finally fallen into place. Korra must deal with that portal, something that hasn't beeen dealt with since the first avatar. It also has me thinking about what we might expect in Book Three. I even have a title in my head but I won't share it just yet. I also like that we got the story of the first avatar. It dragged a little and I wondered if they'd ever be able to cram in what wee needed but in the end, they did. And I agree with what you said Mr Light. Wan's story would have made a great show or season-long arc.

More stuff…

- Wan wasn't a bender. He was given the power of fire first by a lion turtle. Maybe we could say that he started as a firebender. A number of people online were speculating on what element he might possess and fire came up as the best guess because of the colors he wore.

- I liked that Wan wasn't a goody-goody ultra noble guy. He was a bit mischievous and did what he had to do to survive. Not every hero is a saint and I like that this was reflected on the show.

- I wasn't totally clear on one thing… Did Wan possess 3 elements with Raava holding onto air until she merged with him?

- Now we know a little more about how bending works. The lion turtles granted the humans an element for a short time, then when they left for good, the humans who were already benders kept their bending but passed them on to their children through their genes (or whatever else gets passed on). This had me thinking about the discussion we had a few weeks ago about whether or not bending could be acquired by non-benders. Could people appeal to the spirits or a spiritual force to get an ability afterall?

- We also know a little more about how the avatar works. Wan was successful in appealing to many lion turtles in order to get more elmements. Then he merged with Raava who looks to be serving as a source of power we now know as the avatar spirit. I wonder… Could others do this as well? Could something like this happen again once the spirit door opens? You know, appeal for some bending then get yourself a spirit guide and voila! You're just like the avatar! I'm not ignoring any counterarguments from the discussion we had, I've taken away a lot to think about, but I'm still keeping an open mind about what might be possible. Or at least, could we see a "dark avatar" if someone merges with Vaatu?

- I wondered if the avatar could access any lifetime no matter how far back, but here it almost looked as if these first few lives are so deep that concentration on that level might be difficult. That could explain why Aang only went back to Roku mostly, along with the next three or why Korra's look back stopped with the last water tribe avatar.

- One more thing... Some of what we saw in this episode didn't totally mesh with what we've heard about bending. Supposedly people learned bending from badger moles, dragons, the moon and sky bisons but here, they were given bending. The only way I can reconcile this is maybe they simply honed their existing skills by watching the nature and the rest became folklore.

Looking forward to the rest of the season more than ever.
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Old October 19 2013, 07:58 AM   #219
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

Plz rename thread to The Legend of Wan - Book One: Crazy Awesome.
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Old October 19 2013, 11:19 AM   #220
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

Scaredface wrote: View Post
- I wasn't totally clear on one thing… Did Wan possess 3 elements with Raava holding onto air until she merged with him?
I think he held only one element at a time, when Raava went through him the first time she gave him air, which she held and took fire away, the same later with water and earth, he used one, she held the other three. The only time he used more than one element was when she possessed him and it became permanent after they bonded.

- One more thing... Some of what we saw in this episode didn't totally mesh with what we've heard about bending. Supposedly people learned bending from badger moles, dragons, the moon and sky bisons but here, they were given bending. The only way I can reconcile this is maybe they simply honed their existing skills by watching the nature and the rest became folklore.
Yeah, by the time of The Last Airbender the Lionturtles seemed to be completely forgotten, it makes sense that people assumed bending came from emulating dragons, badgermoles etc., when in fact that only helped them to refine the abilities given to them by the lionturtles.
It's ancient history that happened 10.000 years ago, inconsistencies between facts and what people believe happened are to be expected.
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Old October 19 2013, 01:01 PM   #221
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

<<- One more thing... Some of what we saw in this episode didn't totally mesh with what we've heard about bending. Supposedly people learned bending from badger moles, dragons, the moon and sky bisons but here, they were given bending. The only way I can reconcile this is maybe they simply honed their existing skills by watching the nature and the rest became folklore.>>

They showed this in the episode. Wan got fire from the Lion Turtle, but in the montage they showed him TRAINING with a dragon to learn how to use it well. So the bending gene was already in humanity from ancient times, but that skill was refined by studying the animals which also possessed the elements. Perhaps there was a time when the art of bending was forgotten after the Lion Turtles left and lay fallow, but it was relearned from the animals.

One of the things I loved about the episode was how they introduced so many new concepts to the mythology while at the same time not contradicting the old stuff and even referencing to it like that. Well done, chaps!
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Old October 19 2013, 03:08 PM   #222
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

Scaredface wrote: View Post
- I wasn't totally clear on one thing… Did Wan possess 3 elements with Raava holding onto air until she merged with him?
Wan only had fire at first, given to him by the lion-turtle of his home city. Then he found the airbender community and asked its lion-turtle to give him airbending, but it explained that Raava would need to hold the ability until he trained enough to be ready for it. Once that happened, he had fire and air. It was later on that we saw him gain waterbending and earthbending the same way, one at a time.


- Now we know a little more about how bending works. The lion turtles granted the humans an element for a short time, then when they left for good, the humans who were already benders kept their bending but passed them on to their children through their genes (or whatever else gets passed on). This had me thinking about the discussion we had a few weeks ago about whether or not bending could be acquired by non-benders. Could people appeal to the spirits or a spiritual force to get an ability afterall?
Maybe, but it's possible that only lion-turtles have the ability. Yet it's worth noting that each l-t only gave one element. Maybe this is the basis of the Four Nations -- each l-t had a particular elemental affinity, and this affected the character of the people living atop it -- or perhaps people with that character were drawn to the appropriate l-t. Maybe Wan was able to acquire multiple elements because he was an outsider, a renegade. And it was only after a couple of years living among the spirits, outside of any one l-t's influence, that he gained his second element. You could say that he became unique among humans in that his affinity was with the spirits -- the fifth element, the quintessence -- rather than with any of the four material elements. And that's what made him capable of assimilating multiple elements.

Hey, I just realized -- Wan gained his elements in the same order as the Avatar cycle. After fire comes air, then water, then earth. That must be why the cycle goes in that order.


- We also know a little more about how the avatar works. Wan was successful in appealing to many lion turtles in order to get more elmements. Then he merged with Raava who looks to be serving as a source of power we now know as the avatar spirit. I wonder… Could others do this as well? Could something like this happen again once the spirit door opens? You know, appeal for some bending then get yourself a spirit guide and voila! You're just like the avatar!
That seems unlikely. As I said, Wan went on a long journey that entailed living among the spirits for years and acquiring elemental abilities from lion-turtles. As far as we know, there's only one lion-turtle left in the world, and the spirits no longer inhabit the material plane (although they clearly do have means of crossing over aside from the polar portals). Plus, Raava seemed to be a uniquely powerful spirit -- with one exception:

Or at least, could we see a "dark avatar" if someone merges with Vaatu?
Now, that's possible, and it might well be Unalaq's goal for himself.


- I wondered if the avatar could access any lifetime no matter how far back, but here it almost looked as if these first few lives are so deep that concentration on that level might be difficult. That could explain why Aang only went back to Roku mostly, along with the next three or why Korra's look back stopped with the last water tribe avatar.
Actually I was thinking that this is probably something that every Avatar must experience at some point, in order to learn the whole story of who they are and where they began. But you're probably right that it takes a lot of mental/spiritual effort to achieve, a deep communion with the Avatar Spirit.


- One more thing... Some of what we saw in this episode didn't totally mesh with what we've heard about bending. Supposedly people learned bending from badger moles, dragons, the moon and sky bisons but here, they were given bending. The only way I can reconcile this is maybe they simply honed their existing skills by watching the nature and the rest became folklore.
As I mentioned in that earlier discussion, there's a difference between having the ability and mastering it. I mean, most of us have fingers, but it's only with training that we can play the piano or guitar with them. As we saw here, Wan's training with the dragons gave him the ability to control his fire much better than the other humans could. So they were fire-users, but he was the first firebender, the first one who could manipulate it and use it as an extension of his body and will rather than just generating and throwing it. Similarly, the other humans who'd been given their abilities by the lion-turtles still needed to learn how to master those abilities by studying the animals that shared them.
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Old October 19 2013, 04:53 PM   #223
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

Scaredface wrote: View Post
- Now we know a little more about how bending works. The lion turtles granted the humans an element for a short time, then when they left for good, the humans who were already benders kept their bending but passed them on to their children through their genes (or whatever else gets passed on). This had me thinking about the discussion we had a few weeks ago about whether or not bending could be acquired by non-benders. Could people appeal to the spirits or a spiritual force to get an ability afterall?
This episode settles the matter with a definite 'yes'.
Yes, a non-bender can gain bending by appealing to a lion-turtle and convincing said lion-turtle to give him/her bending.
Indeed, lion-turtles routinely gave bending to non-benders in ancient times; and they did so pretty casually - for a hunting trip or for harvesting fruits.

- We also know a little more about how the avatar works. Wan was successful in appealing to many lion turtles in order to get more elmements. Then he merged with Raava who looks to be serving as a source of power we now know as the avatar spirit. I wonder… Could others do this as well? Could something like this happen again once the spirit door opens? You know, appeal for some bending then get yourself a spirit guide and voila! You're just like the avatar! I'm not ignoring any counterarguments from the discussion we had, I've taken away a lot to think about, but I'm still keeping an open mind about what might be possible. Or at least, could we see a "dark avatar" if someone merges with Vaatu?
Also quite possible.
Presently, Vaatu might be nervous, seeing how a human, helped by a very weak Raava, defeated him 10000 years ago.
He may not look forward to again facing a human helped by a now strong Raava. Not unless he gets his own human empowered with bending of the four elements. And now that the spirit postal is open, humans can meet him in the spirit world.
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Old October 19 2013, 06:26 PM   #224
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

Scaredface wrote: View Post
Or at least, could we see a "dark avatar" if someone merges with Vaatu?
I have a feeling that this is what is going to happen with Unalaaq during the Harmonic Convergence.
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Old October 20 2013, 12:52 AM   #225
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Re: The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

Well that plot took it's sweet time kicking in. Honestly, I was starting to wonder if this show had totally lost focus.

Part of me hopes that Korra's irrational behaviour of late will turn out to be the result of some kind of resonance with Vaatu. Maybe he and Raava are still somewhat connected and the Avatar spirit can sense when his influence is growing. I really hope it's not just poor writing.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Hey, I just realized -- Wan gained his elements in the same order as the Avatar cycle. After fire comes air, then water, then earth. That must be why the cycle goes in that order.
It's also the order in which Rokku, Aang and Korra mastered them. I wonder if it's just a tradition or something more fundamental to the way an Avatar works. Meaning, is it even possible for an avatar to learn them out of sequence? Could easily be just a coincidence, but Aang did try using fire before he'd mastered either water or earth and was unable to control it.

SG-17 wrote: View Post
Scaredface wrote: View Post
Or at least, could we see a "dark avatar" if someone merges with Vaatu?
I have a feeling that this is what is going to happen with Unalaaq during the Harmonic Convergence.
Here's a scary thought; maybe that's exactly what need to happen to restore balance? Maybe from here on out there will be two Avatars acting as yin and yang? I think it's either that or Vaatu and Raava will be reunited, ending the line of Avatars forever....OR they will both become merged with the Avatar spirit?

However it plays out, I'd be a little disappointed if all they end of doing is shoving him back in his cage for another ten millennia.
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