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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old October 18 2013, 06:30 PM   #16
kirk55555
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Re: Crusade Question

Wait, what was that about Mages? I assume they "make" a technomage through just teaching someone. I'd guess some kind of apprentice system (a technomage chooses a pupil/successor and teaches them what they know) and eventually the person "graduates" (knowing technomages, probably in some weird ceremony) and is then an officially recognised technomage. I've never read any B5 book, although I know of the technomage books. I'll never get to read them because the first book is over $20 in the only place I could get it (amazon.com) and I refuse to pay that much for any book, much less an over 12 year old tv tie in book (I wouldn't even pay that much for a Star Wars or Star trek book, with a B5 book by an author I've never heard of my max paying price would be about $2). I'm assuming thats the novels you mean when you say that novels connected the technomages to the shadows. It would be really weird if the technomages needed the shadows to "make" more mages, but I am kind of glad that idea never made it to TV. Not everything in the B5 universe needs to be connected to the shadows.

As for the Season Two thing, I would hope that we wouldn't see EarthGov/Earthforce getting taken over again. That was the most frustrating/annoying part of B5's storyline, the human race becoming collectively idiots and blindly following an obvious dictator. I mean, probably about 90% of all the humans in existence blindly followed this obvious tyranical government, including the always idiotic Earthforce (seriously, if there are more than about 20 Earthforce officers who aren't corrupt idiots I'd be shocked). The last thing the B5 universe needed was another crazy group taking control of the government/military.
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Old October 18 2013, 06:59 PM   #17
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Re: Crusade Question

Going by the novels, the "tech" in technomage is literal. They have technology incorporated into their bodies that enables/assists them in performing their tricks. It's revealed that this technology is supplied to them by the Shadows, though most of the mages are unaware of this at the beginning of the technomage trilogy. It is also, predictably, resistant to study/replication.
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Old October 18 2013, 07:00 PM   #18
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Re: Crusade Question

The Technomages were essentially the weapons of the Shadows in the same way the Telepaths were the weapons of the Vorlons. They just chose not to participate in the conflict.
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Old October 18 2013, 07:26 PM   #19
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Re: Crusade Question

Getting a bit off topic, but the three trilogies (Centauri Prime, Telepath/Bester, and Technomages) are essentially considered cannon to the extent any tie in book series can be considered cannon for a show. All three were written based on basic story/plot outlines developed by JMS as part of his development of the overall Babylon 5 universe. And all 3 really are great and worth reading if you can find them. They fill in a lot of holes and finish a lot of stories, and even though they aren't written by JMS, they do it in the way JMS intended it to be done. Just some really great stuff.
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Old October 18 2013, 07:33 PM   #20
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Re: Crusade Question

^ 'To Dream in the City of Sorrows' is also considered 100% canon. No "essentially" about it. JMS says so right there in the foreword.

'The Shadow Within' is in a bit of a grey area. Near as I can tell all the Morden/Anna/Icarus stuff is totally canon and is directly referenced in the techno-mage book (by the same author) but the Sheridan/Aggie/Homeguard story...not so much. With is as it should be since that b-story was only really there for padding and IIRC has very little of consequence going on.

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
The music is very hit and miss IMO. It's very moody ant atmospheric in the scenes that call for it, but the second anything action related happens it feels very awkward and just falls totally flat.
I LOVE the "running" drums in action sequences

It's like Phil Collins' In The Air Tinght playing during a Car chase
I think what bothered me was the tempo not matching the visuals. Admittedly it's better in the show than in 'A Call to Arms', but to me it never came close to what Christopher Franke did in B5, even early on.

I guess it was too great a cognitive dissonance for my poor little brain. Like playing thrash metal during a performance of swan lake.

Last edited by Reverend; October 18 2013 at 08:39 PM.
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Old October 18 2013, 08:38 PM   #21
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Re: Crusade Question

[EDIT] Double post. Move along, nothing to see here!
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Old October 18 2013, 10:44 PM   #22
kirk55555
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Re: Crusade Question

dansigal wrote: View Post
Getting a bit off topic, but the three trilogies (Centauri Prime, Telepath/Bester, and Technomages) are essentially considered cannon to the extent any tie in book series can be considered cannon for a show. All three were written based on basic story/plot outlines developed by JMS as part of his development of the overall Babylon 5 universe. And all 3 really are great and worth reading if you can find them. They fill in a lot of holes and finish a lot of stories, and even though they aren't written by JMS, they do it in the way JMS intended it to be done. Just some really great stuff.
I'm fine with books being canon (I'm a HUGE supporter of the Star Wars EU, the EU is why I love the Star Wars Uiverse). I'm sure the B5 books are good. They're also fairly expensive to get anymore, outside of getting lucky at a thrift shop (I saw a B5 book for 50 cents once, it was before I got into B5 so I didn't buy it, I still regret the missed opportunity ). The technomage stuff does sound interesting, if a bit unexpected.
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Old October 18 2013, 11:47 PM   #23
Mr Light
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Re: Crusade Question

The Technomage and Centauri novels are absolutely amazing. The Centauri trilogy is the REAL ending of the series. And the Mage novels portray the Shadow War in the big budget way they should have been.

Mages get their powers from Shadow Tech being implanted directly into their bodies. These crystalyses (sp?) were directly supplied to them by the Shadows and they have no idea how to replicate the technology. So when the Mages ran away from the Shadows in 2259, they lost the ability to gain new crystalses and make new Mages. Only the currently existing Mages can have powers, and when they die, the Mages will be extinct.

I'm guessing that at some point in Crusade, Galen would have discovered the means to replicate the crystalses, probably from the Earthforce Conspiracy's experiments, and thus make Dureena the first of the New Mages.
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Old October 19 2013, 06:41 PM   #24
kirk55555
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Re: Crusade Question

I looked up the Centauri trilogy. On the one hand, its written by one of my favorite writers (Peter David) and involves my favorite B5 character, Londo. On the other hand, its set after the series and continues



I really enjoy B5 as a series, and I’d read the Technomage stuff if I could, but the Centauri Trilogy sound like my personal B5 hell in book form.
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Old October 19 2013, 07:07 PM   #25
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Re: Crusade Question

Well, you're wrong to assume Londo was -just- a puppet.
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Last edited by DonIago; October 20 2013 at 12:05 AM. Reason: I know how to spell Londo, really I do...
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Old October 19 2013, 07:12 PM   #26
kirk55555
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Re: Crusade Question

I know all about the drinking to screw with the thing controlling him. Having an hour a two of freedom rasometimesdoesn't mean he wasn't a puppet. It was a horrible end to a great character, and the worst thing to happen in Babylon 5.
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Old October 19 2013, 07:39 PM   #27
DalekJim
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Re: Crusade Question

I find it heartily reassuring that kirk555555's 2 least fave storylines are the reason I'm such a fan, and that my favourite episode is his least favourite.
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Old October 19 2013, 08:23 PM   #28
Snaploud
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Re: Crusade Question

I can understand Kirk55555's feelings. It's hard to watch one of your favorite characters being forced to say and do things against his will. I have similar feelings about storylines in which a long-time character is framed for murder. Some storylines are just difficult to enjoy (even when the writing/acting/directing is done well).

Personally, I found Londo's closing storyline (including the Centauri trilogy) a fitting way for a rather dark character to find some level of redemption. It's not for everybody, though.
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Old October 19 2013, 09:01 PM   #29
Asbo Zaprudder
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Re: Crusade Question

Mr Light wrote: View Post
The Technomage and Centauri novels are absolutely amazing. The Centauri trilogy is the REAL ending of the series. And the Mage novels portray the Shadow War in the big budget way they should have been.

Mages get their powers from Shadow Tech being implanted directly into their bodies. These crystalyses (sp?) were directly supplied to them by the Shadows and they have no idea how to replicate the technology. So when the Mages ran away from the Shadows in 2259, they lost the ability to gain new crystalses and make new Mages. Only the currently existing Mages can have powers, and when they die, the Mages will be extinct.

I'm guessing that at some point in Crusade, Galen would have discovered the means to replicate the crystalses, probably from the Earthforce Conspiracy's experiments, and thus make Dureena the first of the New Mages.
IIRC from the trilogy, each set of implants that the technomages obtained from the Shadows to implant in a new technomage required the death of a sentient being. I think that was the big secret that Galen uncovered. I expect that Galen must either have to steal the tech or harvest it from someone.
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Old October 19 2013, 09:04 PM   #30
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Re: Crusade Question

Also, about the Apocalypse Box:

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