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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 18 2013, 02:38 PM   #421
Timewalker
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote:
If the new stuff that calls itself Star Trek were actually like Star Trek and wasn't so dumbed-down, I'd consider it more real. When they improve sufficiently, I'll cease to consider it "not-real".
But how will you even know?

Timewalker wrote:
I haven't seen it yet
I am basing my comments on the fact that I saw the 2009 movie and hated it. I've seen a freight train load of spoilers concerning STID, and absolutely none of it has given me cause to think this movie might be any better. I do plan to watch it and decide for sure.

If I feel it's not dumbed-down crap, if the story makes sense, if the characters (and acting) are better than last time, it will have improved. Maybe some day it'll improve enough that I'll stop complaining about it.
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Old October 18 2013, 04:48 PM   #422
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote:
If the new stuff that calls itself Star Trek were actually like Star Trek and wasn't so dumbed-down, I'd consider it more real. When they improve sufficiently, I'll cease to consider it "not-real".
But how will you even know?

Timewalker wrote:
I haven't seen it yet
I am basing my comments on the fact that I saw the 2009 movie and hated it. I've seen a freight train load of spoilers concerning STID, and absolutely none of it has given me cause to think this movie might be any better. I do plan to watch it and decide for sure.

If I feel it's not dumbed-down crap, if the story makes sense, if the characters (and acting) are better than last time, it will have improved. Maybe some day it'll improve enough that I'll stop complaining about it.
Sounds like you're judging a book, not by its cover, but by its Cliffs Notes.

If you read a synopsis of First Contact, the movie doesn't make a lick of sense (Time Travel AND Invasion? Space zombies AND Elves? Berlioz AND Roy Orbison? Other than Picard and Data, who are these other 24th century protagonists, and what's THEIR development?), but actually watching it turns it into a completely different animal. You may or may not like it and that's your prerogative, but either way it's a completely different experience than reading a couple paragraphs. And it's the same for many, many movies out there -- because they're meant to be experienced AS movies, not as little snippets that you pick up here and there and mash together piecemeal.
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Old October 18 2013, 07:43 PM   #423
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Theres actually movies I like that had trailers that put me off. Oblivion, Dark Shadows, Kick-ass. All those had lousy trailers that made me think the movies would be dumb. Fortunatly I gave them a chance.

However, Star Trek Into Darkness, its no more exciting than the trailers.
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Old October 19 2013, 03:48 AM   #424
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post

But how will you even know?


I am basing my comments on the fact that I saw the 2009 movie and hated it. I've seen a freight train load of spoilers concerning STID, and absolutely none of it has given me cause to think this movie might be any better. I do plan to watch it and decide for sure.

If I feel it's not dumbed-down crap, if the story makes sense, if the characters (and acting) are better than last time, it will have improved. Maybe some day it'll improve enough that I'll stop complaining about it.
Sounds like you're judging a book, not by its cover, but by its Cliffs Notes.

If you read a synopsis of First Contact, the movie doesn't make a lick of sense (Time Travel AND Invasion? Space zombies AND Elves? Berlioz AND Roy Orbison? Other than Picard and Data, who are these other 24th century protagonists, and what's THEIR development?), but actually watching it turns it into a completely different animal. You may or may not like it and that's your prerogative, but either way it's a completely different experience than reading a couple paragraphs. And it's the same for many, many movies out there -- because they're meant to be experienced AS movies, not as little snippets that you pick up here and there and mash together piecemeal.
FFS, I would assume that a synopsis of First Contact would use the proper terms. Borg are not "space zombies" and Vulcans are not "elves." As for the Roy Orbison reference, I do know he was a musician and I'm familiar with one or two of his songs, but that stuff that the movie version of Cochrane listens to is just so much noise to me.

There were things I liked about First Contact. There were things I absolutely loathed about First Contact, the major one being Zephram Cochrane himself. Considering that it's a continuing character study of Picard (and Data) and I liked the character of Lily, it wasn't a bad movie. It was certainly the best of the TNG movies.

People here seem to constantly overlook the fact that I HAVE seen the 2009 movie. I saw it and hated it. Not even Leonard Nimoy could save that pile of crap.

I've also stated that I intend to see STID. It's available "on demand" and so one of these days I'll sit down and watch it. But considering that it's almost impossible to post in the Trek areas of this forum and NOT see copious spoilers about the movie (they crop up everywhere, even in non-movie-specific threads), you should realize I already know quite a number of details about the movie and there's not a single one of those details that has impressed me.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it's going to take a hell of a lot to accomplish that. I honestly don't think Abrams et. al are up to the job. When it comes to Star Trek movies, I'm hard to please. The last ST movie that accomplished that was Star Trek IV.

And would you all please just get it through your heads that even though I consider the 2009 movie stupid, that is not the same as saying that people who like it are stupid. I rather suspect some of the production people think the viewers are stupid, but I'm not part of the production staff.
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Old October 19 2013, 04:14 AM   #425
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BillJ wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
The torpedoes were armed, that's how they were able to make them go off inside the Vengeance. They always had that capability.
We really don't know that for sure. They could have easily put explosives where the cryo-tubes were. Even if they still had weapons payload, my scenario still works out.
Nope. The torpedoes had active warheads. They weren't added. Remember Spock briefing McCoy on his plan:

Spock: Dr. McCoy, you inadvertently activated a torpedo, could you replicate the process?
Bones: Why the hell would I want to do that?
Spock: Can you or can you not?
Bones: Dammit, man. I'm a doctor, not a torpedo technician.
Spock: The fact that you're doctor is precisely why I need you to listen very carefully.

Verdict: Khan stuffed his people inside torpedoes with live warheads.
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Old October 19 2013, 04:21 AM   #426
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
The torpedoes were armed, that's how they were able to make them go off inside the Vengeance. They always had that capability.
We really don't know that for sure. They could have easily put explosives where the cryo-tubes were. Even if they still had weapons payload, my scenario still works out.
Nope. The torpedoes had active warheads. They weren't added. Remember Spock briefing McCoy on his plan:

Spock: Dr. McCoy, you inadvertently activated a torpedo, could you replicate the process?
Bones: Why the hell would I want to do that?
Spock: Can you or can you not?
Bones: Dammit, man. I'm a doctor, not a torpedo technician.
Spock: The fact that you're doctor is precisely why I need you to listen very carefully.

Verdict: Khan stuffed his people inside torpedoes with live warheads.
Or the warheads were added back after Khan rabbited and Marcus was discovered what he did.
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Old October 19 2013, 02:20 PM   #427
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
The torpedoes were armed, that's how they were able to make them go off inside the Vengeance. They always had that capability.
We really don't know that for sure. They could have easily put explosives where the cryo-tubes were. Even if they still had weapons payload, my scenario still works out.
Nope. The torpedoes had active warheads. They weren't added. Remember Spock briefing McCoy on his plan:

Spock: Dr. McCoy, you inadvertently activated a torpedo, could you replicate the process?
Bones: Why the hell would I want to do that?
Spock: Can you or can you not?
Bones: Dammit, man. I'm a doctor, not a torpedo technician.
Spock: The fact that you're doctor is precisely why I need you to listen very carefully.

Verdict: Khan stuffed his people inside torpedoes with live warheads.
I'm not sure that he meant activate in as 'to explode'. I thought he meant 'to open' (and reveal its contents) now that it has people (in cryo-tubes) inside. Otherwise why would Spock ask McCoy how to activate the tubes - he doesn't want them to explode inside The Enterprise.
If Spock knows the torpedoes have live warheads and will presumably explode on impact why not just tell Khan he'll launch them if he doesn't beam over Kirk (and Scotty and Marcus)
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Old October 19 2013, 03:24 PM   #428
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Carol: Unfortunately for us, the warheads on these weapons are live.
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Old October 19 2013, 03:26 PM   #429
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Carol: Unfortunately for us, the warheads on these weapons are live.
If they can't scan the innards of the torpedo, how would she know? She's likely guessing that they are live.
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Old October 19 2013, 03:37 PM   #430
Set Harth
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

All that was said was that the "fuel compartment" containing the cryotube was shielded, not the whole torpedo. The warheads are presumably not in the shielded section.
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Old October 20 2013, 03:55 AM   #431
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote:
If the new stuff that calls itself Star Trek were actually like Star Trek and wasn't so dumbed-down, I'd consider it more real. When they improve sufficiently, I'll cease to consider it "not-real".
But how will you even know?

Timewalker wrote:
I haven't seen it yet
I am basing my comments on the fact that I saw the 2009 movie and hated it. I've seen a freight train load of spoilers concerning STID, and absolutely none of it has given me cause to think this movie might be any better. I do plan to watch it and decide for sure.

If I feel it's not dumbed-down crap, if the story makes sense, if the characters (and acting) are better than last time, it will have improved. Maybe some day it'll improve enough that I'll stop complaining about it.
It doesn't matter how much you've read about it, you've got to see it yourself to judge or its not your opinion.

I'm being forced to watch FF6 (1/3 so far) and its turning out as I expected but I can't really comment until I see the whole thing.
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Old October 20 2013, 04:21 AM   #432
Timewalker
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

It's a valid opinion if I see a picture of an actress in her underwear (apparently that's Carol Marcus?) and my first reaction is that she needs to eat a sandwich (seriously, she looks like a toothpick).

I don't need to see the movie to have a negative reaction to a picture.

The story is a different matter. I should see the movie before saying that it's 100% crap. It might only be 99% crap. Who knows - maybe I'll find that elusive 1% (or more).

But I HAVE seen the 2009 movie, and I stand by my opinions of it.
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Old October 20 2013, 01:24 PM   #433
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Timewalker wrote: View Post
It's a valid opinion if I see a picture of an actress in her underwear (apparently that's Carol Marcus?) and my first reaction is that she needs to eat a sandwich (seriously, she looks like a toothpick).
Are Americans now so use to only seeing other fat Americans (yes, I'm a fat American) that we no longer know what a healthy body looks like?
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Old October 20 2013, 04:05 PM   #434
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

BillJ wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
It's a valid opinion if I see a picture of an actress in her underwear (apparently that's Carol Marcus?) and my first reaction is that she needs to eat a sandwich (seriously, she looks like a toothpick).
Are Americans now so use to only seeing other fat Americans (yes, I'm a fat American) that we no longer know what a healthy body looks like?
Fellow Fat-American, and gotta agree with you on that one. There's nothing unhealthy or anorexic looking about Alice Eve. The comment strikes me as being strictly mean spirited and offensive.

Edit To Add: Just so people don't think I'm a JJ cheerleader or cause this is over STID, the reason comments like that are offensive to me is 1) I was a healthy weight when I was younger and heard that "eat a sandwich" / "put some meat on them bones" bullshit nearly daily; I was healthy just not what was "normal". Now that I've overweight, I get the "put the sandwich down" and "Push away from the table" shit from the same people that bitched about my weight when I was a healthy weight 2) My youngest is a healthy, average weight, already at 4 years old we're getting this bullshit from people about him needing to put on more weight to be "normal sized". Whether you think it's a joke or not, it's fucking cruel to say to or about someone, IMO.
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Old October 20 2013, 04:08 PM   #435
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Timewalker wrote: View Post
I've also stated that I intend to see STID. It's available "on demand" and so one of these days I'll sit down and watch it.
I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it's going to take a hell of a lot to accomplish that. I honestly don't think Abrams et. al are up to the job. When it comes to Star Trek movies, I'm hard to please. The last ST movie that accomplished that was Star Trek IV.
Is this a serious post? You are flat out deciding to put off watching the movie and are making judgements about it, claiming you're willing to be proven wrong, yet actively refusing to watch it. Yes, "some day' you'll watch it. How about today since, today is the day you're posting opinions about it?
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