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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 159 55.21%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 52 18.06%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 32 11.11%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 39 13.54%
I don't know. 6 2.08%
Voters: 288. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 15 2013, 10:58 AM   #376
grendelsbayne
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
"They're animals!"

"I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will. I've never been able to forgive them for the death of my boy."

He's definitely speaking of the people, not the political body.
Yes, he definitely (very understandably) does not like Klingons. That doesn't mean he wants them to die. It also doesn't mean it's impossible for him to be friendly to a specific individual klingon who has proven himself trustworthy, or even to simply suppress any latent antipathy he is feeling for the sake of completing his mission as smoothly as possible.

Now re-watch V, where he smiles and salutes the Klingon captain, where Scotty and everyone are having a great time totally at odds with VI's "guess who's coming to dinner"
The STVI dinner scene is very clearly not just about the fact that they're Klingons. It's about the fact that they're Klingons on their way to Earth to negotiate a permanent cease fire which Kirk believes is an idiotic idea which could destroy the Federation, and the fact that he's been ordered to roll out the red carpet for them despite his major objections, partially because Spock 'volunteered' him for the job.

If they were there to negotiate a trading agreement or something mundane, Kirk would've easily kept any residual resentment in check, because it just wouldn't be relevant to the mission at hand.

To get back to the actual topic, I think your definition of 'ignoring' sequals is rather broad. Just because a plot line is dropped or added here and there without explicit explanations doesn't mean TMP and WOK or TFF and TUC don't all happen in the same continuity. Contrast that to, for instance, Superman Returns which factually writes over everything that happened after Superman I by saying Kal el went to find his home planet and didn't come back until years later.
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Old October 15 2013, 04:02 PM   #377
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Funny... at the beginning of the movie, I got the impression Kirk wouldn't have been very sad at all if they died. What could've given me that impression? Oh.

"They're dying."
"Let them die!"

Honestly I'm surprised the conspirators never tried to recruit Kirk.
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Old October 15 2013, 04:08 PM   #378
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post

Honestly I'm surprised the conspirators never tried to recruit Kirk.
It would've been an interesting twist to the character but Paramount never would have allowed that to happen.
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Old October 15 2013, 11:14 PM   #379
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I can see how he could be seen as racist but come on, he's Kirk.
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Old October 16 2013, 09:53 AM   #380
grendelsbayne
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Funny... at the beginning of the movie, I got the impression Kirk wouldn't have been very sad at all if they died. What could've given me that impression? Oh.

"They're dying."
"Let them die!"

Honestly I'm surprised the conspirators never tried to recruit Kirk.
If you look a few posts farther back, you'll see that line was already addressed. But to repeat myself - that line was very clearly a reference to the Empire, not the species. There isn't a single reference anywhere in the movie to suggest that the Praxis incident could in any way cause an actual extinction event. (How would that even work? An explosion on one moon killing a species spread out across how many different star systems?)

So, yes, Kirk had no problem whatsoever letting the Klingon Empire die. Why would he?
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Old October 16 2013, 06:22 PM   #381
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I don't really agree with that interpretation. I understood it as Kirk really not caring what happened to the Klingons either as an empire or a people; whether or not this event could cause their extinction is beside the point.
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Old October 16 2013, 07:12 PM   #382
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Yeah, I mean it isn't as if every Anti-Semite longed for or cheered the Holocaust. Jefferson Davis, Andrew Jackson and Woodrow Wilson were all hardcore racists--doesn't mean they wanted every single person of color exterminated.
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Old October 16 2013, 09:25 PM   #383
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Funny... at the beginning of the movie, I got the impression Kirk wouldn't have been very sad at all if they died. What could've given me that impression? Oh.

"They're dying."
"Let them die!"

Honestly I'm surprised the conspirators never tried to recruit Kirk.
If you look a few posts farther back, you'll see that line was already addressed. But to repeat myself - that line was very clearly a reference to the Empire, not the species. There isn't a single reference anywhere in the movie to suggest that the Praxis incident could in any way cause an actual extinction event. (How would that even work? An explosion on one moon killing a species spread out across how many different star systems?)

So, yes, Kirk had no problem whatsoever letting the Klingon Empire die. Why would he?
You're free to believe that, I don't. I think Kirk was talking about the race. The destruction of Praxis screwed up Qo'nos' environment and they were gonna run out of oxygen in fifty years. So... I think "let them die" was rather literal.
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Old October 17 2013, 11:10 AM   #384
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Funny... at the beginning of the movie, I got the impression Kirk wouldn't have been very sad at all if they died. What could've given me that impression? Oh.

"They're dying."
"Let them die!"

Honestly I'm surprised the conspirators never tried to recruit Kirk.
If you look a few posts farther back, you'll see that line was already addressed. But to repeat myself - that line was very clearly a reference to the Empire, not the species. There isn't a single reference anywhere in the movie to suggest that the Praxis incident could in any way cause an actual extinction event. (How would that even work? An explosion on one moon killing a species spread out across how many different star systems?)

So, yes, Kirk had no problem whatsoever letting the Klingon Empire die. Why would he?
You're free to believe that, I don't. I think Kirk was talking about the race. The destruction of Praxis screwed up Qo'nos' environment and they were gonna run out of oxygen in fifty years. So... I think "let them die" was rather literal.
Klingon Empire = many star systems. Not just the Homeworld. Even if Kronos was unsalvageable, there wouldn't have to be a single unnecessary Klingon death unless the Klingons themselves couldn't be bothered to evacuate (having fifty years to do so).
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Old October 17 2013, 07:48 PM   #385
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

If there's so much available space out there, that you can just move billions of people with no problem... why was Genesis specifically made to counter planetary overpopulation as Marcus herself said?
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Old October 17 2013, 09:13 PM   #386
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Maybe Genesis was always intended to be a WMD and the proposal tape was only created to establish plausible deniability.
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Old October 17 2013, 09:51 PM   #387
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

To answer the thread's question:


For a new film? No, not really.


For a new TV series? Absolutely, yes.
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Old October 17 2013, 10:48 PM   #388
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
If there's so much available space out there, that you can just move billions of people with no problem... why was Genesis specifically made to counter planetary overpopulation as Marcus herself said?
DonIago wrote: View Post
Maybe Genesis was always intended to be a WMD and the proposal tape was only created to establish plausible deniability.
I think there maybe something to the WMD and plausible deniability angle. We saw way too many empty class-M worlds and probably countless more that haven't been discovered.

What was Starfleet's true intentions in regards to the Genesis device? Someone was approving requisitions for proto-matter.
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Old October 18 2013, 11:46 AM   #389
grendelsbayne
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
GoRe Star wrote: View Post
If there's so much available space out there, that you can just move billions of people with no problem... why was Genesis specifically made to counter planetary overpopulation as Marcus herself said?
DonIago wrote: View Post
Maybe Genesis was always intended to be a WMD and the proposal tape was only created to establish plausible deniability.
I think there maybe something to the WMD and plausible deniability angle. We saw way too many empty class-M worlds and probably countless more that haven't been discovered.

What was Starfleet's true intentions in regards to the Genesis device? Someone was approving requisitions for proto-matter.
I don't think its really necessary to postulate bad intentions re: genesis. We know for a fact that every major power has many habitable star systems, and we know that many uninhabited star systems still have already habitable planets, but that doesn't mean its necessarily redundant for the Federation to be researching better means of terraforming.

There are lots of different reasons that could make various colonization initiatives either more or less achievable. Many existing M class planets were probably in very poor locations. No one wants to live in the middle of a nebula that screws with all your sensors and communications. No one wants to live in an area completely surrounded by hostile species. No one wants to live on a planet whose environment is naturally extremely harsh compared to what they're used to. Even a colony which is simply really, really far away from the Federation could potentially have problems attracting settlers, whether there's anything actually wrong with it or not. So looking for ways to add more options in better locations makes sense.

Also, if the Federation is at all sensible, their colonization plans would consider long term population trends - trying to anticipate problems before they arise, rather than having to react to them while people are already suffering. The 'overpopulation' Genesis was hoped to counter may not even actually exist yet, but would be something more along the lines of politicians twenty years ago starting to worry about the effects of the looming retirement of the baby boomer generation.
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Old October 18 2013, 03:55 PM   #390
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

^Plus, why settle lightyears away when you can terraform every planet in our solar system?
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