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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old October 16 2013, 02:22 PM   #16
BillJ
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Nemesis isn't the best Trek film and it isn't the worst. I actually rank it as the best of the Next Gen films.
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Old October 17 2013, 12:07 AM   #17
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Nemesis isn't the best Trek film and it isn't the worst. I actually rank it as the best of the Next Gen films.
Same here. As a matter of fact it is the only Next Gen movie DVD that I own and re-watch fairly often.

Great points for me are:

Riker and Troi's wedding.

Riker finally becoming a Captain.

The fight with the Reman boarding party and Riker's fight with the Viceroy.

And Nemesis led to my favorite lit series ever; Titan.
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Old October 17 2013, 02:30 AM   #18
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

B4 worked for me, and made sense from an in-universe perspective(rather than Soong going straight to Lore)

I liked the wedding scene

the movie looks and feels very cinematic

Tom Hardy's performance is good
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Old October 17 2013, 02:53 AM   #19
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

ChowdaHead wrote: View Post
its biggest flaw is its director. I agree his vision was so far off.
I agree, except that I don't think any director could have salvaged that script.
sonak wrote: View Post
Tom Hardy's performance is good
I think he did the best he could, but never once during the film did I buy into the character being Picard.
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Old October 17 2013, 02:56 AM   #20
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Makarov wrote: View Post
As much as I like Tom Hardy it would have been a much more fun movie if Patrick Stewart played Shinzon as well as Picard. I agree that the plot could have been much more interesting if Shinzon/Picard actually worked together. It's a problem for me that Shinzon neither looks nor acts like Picard.

Now take a look at Looper for a movie with two different actors's playing the same person, I find it much better - even with Joseph Gordon Levitt's strange face. Imagine if they just shaved JGL's head and said, it's young bruce willis! That would suck, and that's what they did here.

The line that's like "our hearts are the same" bugs me. You've got an artificial heart Picard.

I like it better than Generations but less than the rest of the movies. I find Insurrection far better.
for some idiotic reason, the script was written so that shinzon was really in no way like picard. minus enjoying tea. and I get why. they had different lives. different childhoods. but if they really wanted to bring in the viewers and make us care, some true similarities should have been established.
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Old October 17 2013, 03:09 AM   #21
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

I don't think it would have made a difference to me even had Stewart played Shinzon. Four years between Trek films and all they could come up with was an evil twin plot. But that wasn't enough. They had to come up with a Data b-story in which Data gets... a twin! Real imaginative, guys.

The movie was dead before Baird even touched it. He just shut the coffin lid and delivered a eulogy.
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Old October 17 2013, 03:26 AM   #22
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Actually re-watched this recently, and it was just as bad as I had remembered. Everyone in the cast just seems a bit "off." There isn't a performance in the movie that isn't stilted, which is odd, because usually the interplay between the cast was one of the best things about otherwise lackluster Next Gen episodes (or movies). I just get the strong sense that nobody making the movie wanted to be there.

The story and script aren't very good, but I think Baird's direction was the final nail in the coffin. If Frakes had directed instead, I think the movie would be widely remembered as a mediocre one instead of an outright failure. (High praise, I know!).
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Old October 17 2013, 03:35 AM   #23
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Nemesis had some good parts but they are overshadowed by its mistakes.

TNG was an ensemble show and there were only a few minutes of the entire film where that ensemble feeling was there.

They changed Michael Dorn's voice, which made him sound waaaaaay wrong. As a life long Worf fan, the director massively blew that.

The Troi/Shinzon rape scene was not necessary, Shinzon's interactions with Troi just were awful. The deleted scene, ironically was the best of that.

I actually liked the Dunebuggy scene, I just would have preferred if it had taken place against proper adversaries.

I think that it's very possible that if Patrick Stewart had been Shinzon too, it would have been a great thing for the movie.

Data had to die in something massive, otherwise given how many times he had been repaired throughout the series, it just wouldn't work. I rather wish it had been something that challenged him. Flying across space to get to the Scimitar was cool but I don't think it really was difficult for him. I also didn't like the idea of him dying with a phaser in his hand. Data was such a calm and non-violent character, I think it would've been better and much more interesting if he threw himself into the Thaleron and it blew him up, taking the Scimitar with him.

Something that Into Darkness got right was showing the ship ready to go again after being repaired. We should have seen Riker take the Captain's chair on the Titan, we should have seen Picard and his new crew set forth into space again. Instead, they gave us the (hint, hint) that Worf is now the First Officer, and after the toast scene, we never saw Troi, Geordi, Worf or Crusher again. There's a lot of unforgivable fails in this movie, but that's a big one. The final sign off for those characters on screen should NOT have been in a scene like that.
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Old October 17 2013, 05:53 AM   #24
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Evil Lincoln wrote: View Post
Nemesis had some good parts but they are overshadowed by its mistakes.

TNG was an ensemble show and there were only a few minutes of the entire film where that ensemble feeling was there.
Agreed. And as said, certain deleted scenes do show more of that ensemble. It was there in the script, but was systematically hacked out of the final cut by Director Baird.

Evil Lincoln wrote: View Post
Something that Into Darkness got right was showing the ship ready to go again after being repaired. We should have seen Riker take the Captain's chair on the Titan, we should have seen Picard and his new crew set forth into space again. Instead, they gave us the (hint, hint) that Worf is now the First Officer, and after the toast scene, we never saw Troi, Geordi, Worf or Crusher again. There's a lot of unforgivable fails in this movie, but that's a big one. The final sign off for those characters on screen should NOT have been in a scene like that.
Again I agree. And again, the original final scene fits this better, with the Enterprise's new first officer coming in and Picard setting a course "Where No One Has Gone Before". The movie then ends with a pull back from the bridge, and the Enterprise setting sail into the sunset. So much better than the depressing ending the actual movie's got.
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Old October 17 2013, 01:28 PM   #25
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

I quite like "Nemesis". It has its flaws, but so do all the Trek films. I didn't mind the dune buggy scene - it was a fun scene that some fans get way too uppity about. Some of the deleted scenes also add a lot to the movie.

Having said all that, the bits I wasn't too keen on:

* The need for B4... well, there wasn't really a need.
* The wedding scene. Glad it was there, but the TNG crew are at their most cringe-worthy.
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Old October 17 2013, 11:01 PM   #26
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Harvey wrote: View Post
Actually re-watched this recently, and it was just as bad as I had remembered. Everyone in the cast just seems a bit "off." There isn't a performance in the movie that isn't stilted, which is odd, because usually the interplay between the cast was one of the best things about otherwise lackluster Next Gen episodes (or movies). I just get the strong sense that nobody making the movie wanted to be there.
I always thought they came off as "old" (best term I could come up with). If the cast had shown more life, I think the film itself would be better remembered. Warts and all.
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Old October 17 2013, 11:18 PM   #27
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

I don't know if "old" is the best term (although the cast certainly feels old when it comes to the film's action scenes), but I think you're right about the cast not showing a lot of life in the movie. The wedding scene, for example, doesn't play at all because of this.
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Old October 17 2013, 11:46 PM   #28
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Harvey wrote: View Post
I don't know if "old" is the best term ...
You're right. It was lethargic I wanted to use and for some reason just couldn't pluck it out of my brain when I posted earlier.
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Old October 18 2013, 12:07 AM   #29
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Would you be giving your best effort for a director that can't even remember Levar Burton's name?
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Old October 18 2013, 12:58 AM   #30
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Would you be giving your best effort for a director that can't even remember Levar Burton's name?
I have a certain amount of pride. So if my name is in the credits and I'm cashing a paycheck, yeah I'd put forward my best effort.
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