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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

View Poll Results: vote
I prefer the Wrath of Khan 110 72.85%
I Prefer Into Darkness 17 11.26%
I like them both the same 24 15.89%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 16 2013, 05:58 PM   #61
A beaker full of death
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

pfegh. The juvenile "romance" as depicted in nuTrek is about as sophisticated as Saved by the Bell. Of all the contrasts between TWOK and this last film, that characters' maturity - not age - in their interactions with each other is the most striking.
There's more pain and pathos in the lines "I did what you wanted: I stayed away." than in anything NuTrek has come up with, and it managed not to rape the characters in the process.
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Old October 16 2013, 06:24 PM   #62
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
pfegh. The juvenile "romance" as depicted in nuTrek is about as sophisticated as Saved by the Bell. Of all the contrasts between TWOK and this last film, that characters' maturity - not age - in their interactions with each other is the most striking.
There's more pain and pathos in the lines "I did what you wanted: I stayed away." than in anything NuTrek has come up with, and it managed not to rape the characters in the process.
Except given that Kirk and Spock ARE younger in STiD means they DON'T have the life experience Kirk and Spock do in TWoK; so it's apples to oranges.

Plus Trek has NEVER handled romantic relationships well, EVER.
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Old October 16 2013, 06:36 PM   #63
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Noname Given wrote: View Post
Plus Trek has NEVER handled romantic relationships well, EVER.
These two seemed to work out alright relationship wise.



And what about the first Captain of the USS Enterprise?



Also, TWOK for all the reasons posted. Plus when it comes to a big battle between the good guys and the bad guys, the low budget TWOK went with an epic space battle in the beautiful Mutara Nebula, where as the big budgeted STID had it's climactic battle be a first fight on Earth.
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Old October 16 2013, 06:44 PM   #64
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Noname Given wrote: View Post
Except given that Kirk and Spock ARE younger in STiD means they DON'T have the life experience Kirk and Spock do in TWoK; so it's apples to oranges.
Or maybe just another reason why it was overreaching to try putting the later film in the same frame as the former.

Plus Trek has NEVER handled romantic relationships well, EVER.
Marcus and Kirk's former-romance in TWOK was really about as good as it got.
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Old October 16 2013, 06:56 PM   #65
R. Star
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Kinda sad when someone cites an off screen romance as good as it got.

But Trek has always handled relationships in a rather juvenile fashion. Either they just act fundamentally silly, go on about how they're having sex without actually saying it directly, or both for the most part.

Kassidy and Sisko were believable.. but also kinda bland as a couple. And how that relationship survived her being a smuggler for terrorists is beyond me. It wasn't even brought up, also odd considering how berserk and nuts Sisko went over the Maquis.
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Old October 16 2013, 07:02 PM   #66
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

I like both movies, but for me it's STiD any day.
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Old October 16 2013, 07:37 PM   #67
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
But if that's taken away from her, all she'll have to do is sit there and say "hailing frequencies open", which she would still do terribly.
Acting like a military professional would be less annoying than being Spock's clingy, petulant girlfriend. It would also grant more screentime to McCoy, who is obviously a more interesting character in every respect.
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Old October 16 2013, 07:50 PM   #68
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Can we have a Mod put this in General Trek now?
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Old October 16 2013, 09:36 PM   #69
R. Star
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

22 Stars wrote: View Post
Can we have a Mod put this in General Trek now?
Why? I'm sure if you put this poll over on the NuTrek board ID would win.. internet polls are like that.
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Old October 16 2013, 10:01 PM   #70
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

To GTD this goes.
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Old October 16 2013, 10:09 PM   #71
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
But if that's taken away from her, all she'll have to do is sit there and say "hailing frequencies open", which she would still do terribly.
Acting like a military professional would be less annoying than being Spock's clingy, petulant girlfriend. It would also grant more screentime to McCoy, who is obviously a more interesting character in every respect.
Totally agree. McCoy is a better character, played by a better actor, who is a core element to Star Trek and has been pushed out to the side to make room for NuUhura.

As for "not liking relationship drama", I have no problems with characters having romantic/physical/whatever kind of relationships, but when that sole "development" is all they've used to prop up a female character to give her more screen time it shows a lack of ability to develop her in her own right--instead she is mainly defined as being "Spock's girlfriend" (and the less said about how she used that relationship to get a better position the better).

Compare the likes of NuUhura with Saavik from TWOK. Saavik was a confident and forthright young woman, intelligent, ambitious and obviously filled with potential--willing to stand up to Admiral Kirk whilst also willing to turn and ask advice and support from her mentor--whilst also being honest and sought to grow and develop her skills. Despite her Vulcan roots she, at times, showed difficulty in controlling the more powerful of her emotions (her grief was palpable at Spock's funeral). True she did manipulate the situation to provide armed escort to Kirk and McCoy, but that is only logical (she however made it onto the Enterprise on her own merits to begin with). They managed to do all that with a well written script, none of which had her whinging after or pining over a man, and a solid performance (where the actress remained fully clothed as well).
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Old October 16 2013, 10:28 PM   #72
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
With seven-hundred plus episodes, everything is going to feel "cliche and tired".
Not at all, I thought the death of Pike (even though we seen lot's of deaths before) was depicted quite well.

The scene with Scotty in the club bitching with his friend, receiving a call on his "cellphone" was funny and interesting.

Scotty (again) stating that he had to sign off on everything that was brought aboard to ensure it did interact with the M/AM reactor made a lot of sense.

Really too bad these were such isolated good moments.

Yes, JJTrek does a few things well. However, STID is very unbalanced.
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Old October 16 2013, 10:41 PM   #73
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

I'm not a person that cares for "relationship drama" in Star Trek, but thought Into Darkness pulled off Spock/Uhura in a fairly believable manner from my perspective and I say that as someone who wasn't fond of the coupling in the 2009 film.

Reminded me of my wife and I who usually bicker at the most inappropriate times.
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Old October 16 2013, 10:50 PM   #74
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Acting like a military professional would be less annoying than being Spock's clingy, petulant girlfriend.
It's a new Star Trek for a more clingy, petulant generation.

Well the joke's on me because although I haven't been able to bring myself to watch STID again after my first viewing experience (a first for me with any Trek film), the Spock+Uhura relationship is one of the things I actually liked about the new movies.
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Old October 17 2013, 02:34 AM   #75
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

BigJake wrote: View Post
ChowdaHead wrote: View Post
haha. youre simply picking and choosing, sir. this argument is so awful. youre trying a bit too.... hard.
Well struck, sir. Unfortunately, I believe we have already established that it is I who am rubber, and you who are glue, infinity-plus-one-no-backsies-punchbuggies-no-returns. Q. To the E. To the mother-@#!$in' D.

I'll see you at the bike racks next Recess.
glad that's over.
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