RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,345
Posts: 5,353,878
Members: 24,620
Currently online: 567
Newest member: StarTrekSteve

TrekToday headlines

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

View Poll Results: vote
I prefer the Wrath of Khan 110 72.85%
I Prefer Into Darkness 17 11.26%
I like them both the same 24 15.89%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 14 2013, 03:24 AM   #16
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

TWOK, for all the above, and specifically the Ceti eels brought an eerie, creepy factor that STID lacks.
__________________
"I'm not the commander" - Tim Allen
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14 2013, 03:43 AM   #17
Gojira
Commodore
 
Gojira's Avatar
 
Location: Stompin' on Tokyo
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

I do like them both pretty equally. I give the slight edge to StiD which has much more action and adventure than TWOK.
__________________
My Science Fiction-Fantasy movie review Blog: http://foleyfunfilmfacts.wordpress.com/
Gojira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14 2013, 03:52 AM   #18
JediKnightButler
Captain
 
JediKnightButler's Avatar
 
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
View JediKnightButler's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to JediKnightButler Send a message via AIM to JediKnightButler Send a message via Yahoo to JediKnightButler
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

I suppose that TWOK was my favorite of the two though l enjoyed ID a lot. I just felt like Khan didn't play much of a pivotal role in ID as he maybe should have. In TWOK there was also a personal history between Kirk and Khan (though I hadn't seen Space Seed at the time I first saw TWOK) that didn't exist in ID- for obvious reasons (i.e. it wasn't Kirk who initially encountered Khan as in the Prime universe). ID's take on Khan actually- for a short while- made him somewhat sympathetic- being upset (and who wouldn't be?) that Marcus had killed his "family" and I kind of liked Kirk and Khan teaming up with each other (briefly) to go after Marcus. That was a neat twist that I hadn't seen coming- but then as soon as they got the drop on Marcus, Khan went back to being "pure evil" (Kirk was smart enough to realize that he would turn on them but misjudged his ability to keep him down with a phaser stun). I'm somewhat glad that they didn't kill Khan at the end and left open the *possibility* that he may return in a future movie (though hopefully not the next one) as I feel like we got as much of him as we deserved to get. BD did a great job with the role IMHO.
__________________
Do or do not. There is no try.
JediKnightButler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14 2013, 04:34 AM   #19
maneth
Captain
 
maneth's Avatar
 
Location: maneth
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

STID. But that's mainly because I utterly detest Montalban's Khan. He's so slimy and sleazy and disgusting, the kind of guy I'd rather throw out the nearest airlock. I much, much, much prefer the ice cold Harrison. That said, I think the movie wouldn't have suffered at all if Harrison had been Harrison, simply another augment gone awry, rather than the remake of a legend. I admit Khan is a legend, even if he profoundly disgusts me.
__________________
Live long and prosper
IDIC
maneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14 2013, 02:10 PM   #20
Stoo
Captain
 
Stoo's Avatar
 
Location: Into The Crypts of Rays
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

WoK has more substance to it, with the subplot of Kirk dealing with his aging. And the battle in the mutara nebula still stands up after 30 years. The pacing actually isn't great, it gets off to a really slow start. But it remains a more important film than STID (which was still a lot of fun).
Stoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14 2013, 06:33 PM   #21
22 Stars
Commodore
 
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

TWOK for sure. If I wanted to hear all those lines again, I would put in the Bluray. As it was we had to wait 4 years to see same things play out with less emotional impact and more snickering in the audience.
22 Stars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 11:42 AM   #22
ChowdaHead
Lieutenant Commander
 
ChowdaHead's Avatar
 
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

I just have to stand by the fact that WOK is really overrated. I enjoy it for what it is. it is full of plot holes that are blatant, which don't necessarily ruin the movie for me. though, I do realize why it is so overhyped. it was the first trek film that really got some things right. it had a menacing(this is debatable) enemy that could put up a fight against the gang everyone had come to love through a television series. had it been released today it would most certainly get ripped to pieces. and I get it, it wasn't. okay. but a film has to stand on its own and cant rely on the past to elevate it. personally, Id place the undiscovered country leagues above wok.

Last edited by ChowdaHead; October 15 2013 at 11:08 PM.
ChowdaHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 12:06 PM   #23
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

TWOK is intelligent storytelling and gripping, powerful drama. STID is thick as pigshit.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 12:12 PM   #24
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

For what it's worth, some fans did rip Wrath of Khan to shreds back in '82, in the pages of the old letterzine, Interstat. Here is a sampling of their vitriol (which, as can be seen in this thread are pretty much the same complaints fans are making against Into Darkness today)
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 12:37 PM   #25
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, some fans did rip Wrath of Khan to shreds back in '82, in the pages of the old letterzine, Interstat. Here is a sampling of their vitriol (which, as can be seen in this thread are pretty much the same complaints fans are making against Into Darkness today)
The power of rose-tinted nostalgia glasses at work.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 12:46 PM   #26
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Or... maybe they didn't like the movie and still don't? Has anyone asked them what they think of STiD?
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 02:07 PM   #27
MakeshiftPython
Captain
 
MakeshiftPython's Avatar
 
Location: Ladies love Riker's beard.
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

There will always be fans harsh on every one of these films. No Star Trek film is exceptional.
MakeshiftPython is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 02:47 PM   #28
anh165
Commander
 
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

DalekJim wrote: View Post
TWOK is intelligent storytelling and gripping, powerful drama. STID is thick as pigshit.
Why dont you actually watch STiD before you call it pigshit?

TWOK was my favourite Trek movie, it's what really got me into Star Trek and STiD is great in its own right that works in today's standards.
__________________
No animals were harmed during posting ...
anh165 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 04:29 PM   #29
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

TWOK had its imperfections, mostly small (why is searching for a "lifeless planet" so hard? why does Reliant not have star charts of the Ceti Alpha system that would have told them something had happened? why do they not remember it's where Khan was stranded? etc.) -- but was mostly excellent despite them, with good character arcs, memorable performances, convincingly-sold action that doesn't try to pummel the audience into numbness, and a truly moving death scene for Spock. A moment whose power was mostly leached by the studio's subsequent greed, true, but still in itself a genuinely moving moment even if you hadn't watched the old series. It is really the only Trek film of either the original or TNG franchises that has won, and deserves, real recognition outside of the Trek fanbase.

STiD is in the main a collection of flaws in which a few good elements can be found, wrapped up in state-of-the-art effects. The state-of-the-art effects are what won it recognition outside fandomverse, but really only (I suspect more strongly with each passing month) briefly and for the same reason Charlie's Angels reboots make money: the flash. Flash has a way of fading quickly, and its having faded, it is no surprise that more people are noticing the plot is nonsensical, the action pretty much interchangeable with any other franchise, the character arcs unearned and the setting's universe cartoonified to an extreme degree.

I actually found the attempts to tie in to TWOK less offensive than some people did -- and STiD's share of the backlash ironic given how much the better of the two Abrams films it is -- but still think STiD fans comparing what's happening now to a few grousers in an ancient fanzine are kidding themselves. TWOK will still be remembered and STiD largely forgotten in another twenty years from now for simple reasons of decent filmmaking versus bad/mediocre filmmaking; the real service Abrams rendered was to remind people of the older, better film.
__________________
It's got electrolytes!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "Dennis, that was . . . wisdom" - martok2112 "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen
BigJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2013, 04:42 PM   #30
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

So, "Those people were wrong but these people saying the exact same things now are right!"

The only differences between now and then is how much easier it is now to complain - anyone can do it from their phone on the couch, rather than having to write a letter, pay for a stamp and walk to the mailbox, and that there is no editor on TBBS vetting the letters so only the most interesting ones are posted/published.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3

Last edited by King Daniel Into Darkness; October 15 2013 at 04:53 PM.
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.