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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old October 15 2013, 12:46 AM   #61
Hober Mallow
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Well perhaps with more Vulcan's serving in Starfleet, perhaps some details did come out to explain why your Vulcan crew might need a few days off every seven years.
Why? So they stop throwing plameek soup at you.
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Old October 15 2013, 01:16 AM   #62
Timewalker
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post

Maybe the immature jackass Kirk of nuTrek would have done that...
Oh Jesus. What does nuTrek have to do with this discussion?
Just making the point that Kirk "high-fiving" the Vulcans if Spock and T'Pring had public sex is something that would be seriously out of character for TOS Kirk.

I have no idea where the poster got the notion of Kirk high-fiving anyone, and thought it could be from the Abramsverse, since that Kirk is a great deal less mature than TOS Kirk.
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Old October 15 2013, 01:48 AM   #63
Nerys Myk
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post

Maybe the immature jackass Kirk of nuTrek would have done that...
Oh Jesus. What does nuTrek have to do with this discussion?
Just making the point that Kirk "high-fiving" the Vulcans if Spock and T'Pring had public sex is something that would be seriously out of character for TOS Kirk.

I have no idea where the poster got the notion of Kirk high-fiving anyone, and thought it could be from the Abramsverse, since that Kirk is a great deal less mature than TOS Kirk.
It plays into the notion that Kirk is a womanizing horndog. Which was part of Kirk's reputation to the public at large long before Abrams or even Meyer got their hands on Star Trek.
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Old October 15 2013, 02:26 AM   #64
A beaker full of death
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
It plays into the notion that Kirk is a womanizing horndog. Which was part of Kirk's reputation to the public at large long before Abrams or even Meyer got their hands on Star Trek.
The same public referred to "Dr. Spock" and laser weapons.
And Abrams is an idiot. He's like a Berman who never got a regular job. The Kirk as Don Juan thing has been debunked repeatedly.
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Old October 15 2013, 02:44 AM   #65
BillJ
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
It plays into the notion that Kirk is a womanizing horndog. Which was part of Kirk's reputation to the public at large long before Abrams or even Meyer got their hands on Star Trek.
The same public referred to "Dr. Spock" and laser weapons.
And Abrams is an idiot. He's like a Berman who never got a regular job. The Kirk as Don Juan thing has been debunked repeatedly.
Boy, people look the most mature when name calling.

Whether or not it has been debunked, it is still the perception that the general public has had of the character for the last forty-plus years.
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Old October 15 2013, 03:02 AM   #66
Nerys Myk
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
It plays into the notion that Kirk is a womanizing horndog. Which was part of Kirk's reputation to the public at large long before Abrams or even Meyer got their hands on Star Trek.
The same public referred to "Dr. Spock" and laser weapons.
And Abrams is an idiot. He's like a Berman who never got a regular job. The Kirk as Don Juan thing has been debunked repeatedly.
Yes, the public gets stuff wrong. Mostly because their perceptions aren't based on actually watching the show and hearing things second hand.

Abrams is a very successful producer and director. Not sure how that makes him an idiot. What's a "regular" job? Aren't you a lawyer? To some people that's not a "regular" job. Eye of the beholder.

Even in the Abrams' film Kirk's not much of a "Don Juan". He manages not to score with either of his leading ladies.
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Old October 15 2013, 07:53 AM   #67
prizzm
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

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What's the solution then?
- What would make most sense would be for Vulcan culture to not betroth kids at the age of seven,
Apparently Stonn wasn't bonded as a child, since he was available as an adult for T'Pring, so the practice of child bonding isn't universal.

And what's the point of bonding anyway, if the woman is free to choose someone else? Did T'Pring's bonding just not take? If she had married Spock and then carried on with Stonn when Spock was gone, would she have been snubbed on Vulcan, or is that business as usual?

Lots of unanswered questions. The Vulcan part of the story to me is interesting, but secondary. The central part is the irony of the two friends being forced to fight to the death for the possession of a woman neither of them really wanted.
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Old October 15 2013, 08:09 AM   #68
Timewalker
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

prizzm wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
What's the solution then?
- What would make most sense would be for Vulcan culture to not betroth kids at the age of seven,
Apparently Stonn wasn't bonded as a child, since he was available as an adult for T'Pring, so the practice of child bonding isn't universal.

And what's the point of bonding anyway, if the woman is free to choose someone else? Did T'Pring's bonding just not take? If she had married Spock and then carried on with Stonn when Spock was gone, would she have been snubbed on Vulcan, or is that business as usual?

Lots of unanswered questions. The Vulcan part of the story to me is interesting, but secondary. The central part is the irony of the two friends being forced to fight to the death for the possession of a woman neither of them really wanted.
Stonn probably was bonded as a child, but there are a few possible reasons why he still wasn't bonded as an adult. First, the girl could have died and Stonn's parents didn't bond him to anyone else. Second, it's possible that the girl's family decided, for some reason, to have the bond severed (a kind of pre-pon farr divorce which would be facilitated by a healer). This would make sense if the girl's family intended to move permanently off-planet, or if they just decided Stonn wasn't good enough. Of course, Stonn's family could have been the ones to decide to sever the bond. Third, maybe nobody thought Stonn was good enough for their daughter!

The social consequences for the woman is a great incentive for her to go through with the marriage, rather than choose the challenge. After all, T'Pau asks T'Pring if she is prepared to become the property of the victor - that's not just ceremony - she's asking if T'Pring is prepared to literally become chattel - someone who is owned. This would result in a loss of respect, many of the rights that normal Vulcan women would take for granted, and social ostracism.

Yes, she would have been snubbed on Vulcan. I'm reasonably sure that Vulcan social norms don't include adultery.
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Old October 15 2013, 08:52 AM   #69
Gov Kodos
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

If only Kirk had knocked out Spock in the first round. The look on T'Pring's face when Kirk, to keep diplomatic relations kosher, brings his new Vulcan bribe up to the ship. How's that for you, little miss only three possible outcomes.

I'll leave the rest to Eddie Murphy
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Old October 15 2013, 09:28 AM   #70
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

One thing is sure: if Kirk had "won", he can say goodbye to his command. Imagine the reaction shipboard if after they beam down for Spock's wedding, Kirk returns with no Spock, and married himself. This is the guy you're then going to follow loyally into the jaws of potential death? He'd come off like a total sucker from then on!
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Old October 15 2013, 09:33 AM   #71
Timewalker
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

I started a fanfic about this awhile back...
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Old October 15 2013, 01:56 PM   #72
iguana_tonante
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
The same public referred to "Dr. Spock" and laser weapons.
And Abrams is an idiot. He's like a Berman who never got a regular job. The Kirk as Don Juan thing has been debunked repeatedly.
Yes, the public gets stuff wrong. Mostly because their perceptions aren't based on actually watching the show and hearing things second hand.
Yeah, I wonder where we've seen this behaviour before. For example, people talking how ST09 and STID sucked donkey balls well before seeing them...
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Old October 15 2013, 02:57 PM   #73
Ovation
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Gov Karnstein wrote: View Post
If only Kirk had knocked out Spock in the first round. The look on T'Pring's face when Kirk, to keep diplomatic relations kosher, brings his new Vulcan bribe up to the ship. How's that for you, little miss only three possible outcomes.

I'll leave the rest to Eddie Murphy
I love that bit.
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Old October 15 2013, 04:02 PM   #74
Hober Mallow
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Whether or not it has been debunked, it is still the perception that the general public has had of the character for the last forty-plus years.
That's true, but if you're recreating original characters based not on the originals but on public perception, aren't you just making parodies or caricatures?
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Old October 15 2013, 04:16 PM   #75
BillJ
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Whether or not it has been debunked, it is still the perception that the general public has had of the character for the last forty-plus years.
That's true, but if you're recreating original characters based not on the originals but on public perception, aren't you just making parodies or caricatures?
I've seen the tallies that have been done that shows Kirk didn't sleep with every woman he encountered but that doesn't mean he was never something of a ladies man. He definitely had a non-platonic eye for members of the opposite sex.
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