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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: borg for Trek 3
yes. 22 19.64%
no. 82 73.21%
save them for ST 4 (if there is one) 8 7.14%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 15 2013, 12:27 AM   #151
Balrog
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Waterloo!
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Old October 15 2013, 01:02 AM   #152
M'Sharak
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
You only quoted the text. Still doesn't answer how one can insult a movie.
The filmmakers might indirectly feel insulted, but they are not here.
If a fan feels insulted by that, he might have an issue and needs to step back a bit.
I said nothing concerning insult to filmmaker or fan. You're working far too hard at this tangent for no discernible payoff, and would probably do better simply to return to talking about Borg and/or other potential villains.
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Old October 15 2013, 01:04 AM   #153
Hober Mallow
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Cara007 wrote: View Post
Maybe yes and may be no. Did The Voyage Home have any villains? It is still the most successful TOS film.
Voyage Home has a problem to solve, no villain. There is not even a villainous character in it, except for, if you stretch the definition, the whaler.
The "villain," I guess, was 20th Century mankind.

I'd like a little more imagination in the next Trek film. Evil Bad Guy from Another Time Out for Revenge(TM) is all the writers have been able to come up with for the last two films. I'm burned out of mustache-twirling Trek villains. They're always supposed to be deep and interesting and they never are. Even Khan wasn't that interesting in TWOK, it was how he served the character of Kirk as an archetype which was interesting. Instead of devoting valuable screen time to developing a villain (which amounts to simply coming up with reason #4,365 why an Evil Bad Guy wants revenge), how about writing an imaginative story in which they can develop the main characters, the ones I actually want to see, the ones who always get short shrift in the films.
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Old October 15 2013, 02:35 AM   #154
Tiberius
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Okay, I'm not going to go off topic and explain why I think STiD is a bad movie in this thread. Let's get back on topic now, shall we?
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Old October 15 2013, 03:20 AM   #155
M-Red
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Reading through this thread and I might be surprised now if this doesn't happen.


Kirk and Spock vs. The Borg


Sounds like fanwank but it might be the most marketable combo in all of Trek.
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Old October 15 2013, 03:26 AM   #156
Makarov
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

The only way Kirk / Spock vs. the borg would be cool to me would be if the main enemy was Locutus of Borg that somehow traveled to this timeline.
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Old October 15 2013, 03:29 AM   #157
M-Red
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Makarov wrote: View Post
The only way Kirk / Spock vs. the borg would be cool to me would be if the main enemy was Locutus of Borg that somehow traveled to this timeline.

Obviously it won't be popular here, but TPTB are aiming for the biggest possible blockbuster audience.

I'm definitely not saying I want it, or even that it's going to happen. But it seems like a commercial layup.
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Old October 15 2013, 03:45 AM   #158
Makarov
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

If we're gonna put TNG villains in it for ratings how about Q? Maybe he takes an interest in this altered Kirk or something. They could literally do anything with a Q movie.
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Old October 15 2013, 12:16 PM   #159
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

Makarov wrote: View Post
The only way Kirk / Spock vs. the borg would be cool to me would be if the main enemy was Locutus of Borg that somehow traveled to this timeline.
I think Spockprimutus of Borg would be fanwankier.
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Old October 15 2013, 01:03 PM   #160
SpookyJim
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

I think "done to death" is the best phrase I can see here for the Borg.

They were a formidable adversary and worthy of inclusion in their Next Generation episodes. Then Voyager got their hands on them and turned them into little more than the cybernetic laughing stock of the galaxy.

Enterprise came along and, though many may disagree, I thought they had a good Borg storyline – and a good one to finish off the death-warmed-up bots once and for all.

Khan was a good vehicle for exploring how things can run at a parallel but be different in this 'other universe'. And the destruction of Vulcan was effectively used as an explanation for how the Khan storyline came along earlier than it did in the 'real universe'. But how could the destruction of Vulcan possibly be used as an excuse to attract the Borg from the Delta Quadrant so much earlier than they otherwise would have? In galactic terms, the destruction of Vulcan is still only a minor, barely noticeable event.

I know JJ is creating a whole new game, but he still needs to maintain some degree of authenticity by tying in what's going on to the events in the 'real universe'.

We know what the Borg are. We know what they're going to do. We know pretty much everything there is to know about them and we've seen it all. I for one would be decidedly less than excited about going to see another Star Trek film about the Borg.
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Old October 15 2013, 02:09 PM   #161
BillJ
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

SpookyJim wrote: View Post

We know what the Borg are. We know what they're going to do. We know pretty much everything there is to know about them and we've seen it all. I for one would be decidedly less than excited about going to see another Star Trek film about the Borg.
But we aren't the general audience. They haven't immersed themselves in Trek lore the way that we have and likely most have never seen the Voyager and Enterprise episodes. It will have been twenty-two years since their sole big-screen appearance when Star Trek 2016 is released. Plus, the Borg are one of the few Modern Trek assets that has at least some name recognition amongst general audiences.

From a marketing and ticket-sales standpoint, I think Kirk vs. the Borg is a no-brainer. Question is: do the current Powers That Be have the chops to pull it off?
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Old October 15 2013, 03:25 PM   #162
anh165
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

For the borg to be made workable and an interesting antagonist in a nu-Trek movie, the borg would need to be re-imaged and re-written fairly dramatically.

CGI drones that look very mechanical and cybernetic, to be able to move, articulate and perform feats in ways that a humanoid cannot (a visual summation of what the borg are all about, they are extra-ordinary).

.... this would be a far cry from the actors in latex suits as seen in ST:VOY and First Contact.

A clever plot device or fundamental flaw in the borg's reasoning or mission needs to be written to allow Kirk/Enterprise to defeat them, as you would expect in every david and goliath situation in a big screen movie.

I just do not see the TNG/Voyager way of defeating the Borg acceptable in a modern silver screen movie.

Wit, bravery & sacrifice over technobabble please.
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Old October 15 2013, 03:29 PM   #163
anh165
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

And wit is something that young nuKirk hopefully is able to demonstrate in the next Trek film.

In the first 2 movies, it is unfair to expect Chris Pine's Kirk to match the guile and world weariness of Shatner's Kirk who the latter is clearer older and more experienced especially during the TMP era.
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Old October 15 2013, 03:30 PM   #164
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

For a big budget movie and possibly the end of this incarnation of Trek, if they do a Borg story it would be cool if they could end it by freeing the entire collective.
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Old October 15 2013, 07:45 PM   #165
Balrog
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Re: Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

A non-Borg Threatened 24th Century would be interesting.

How about a 'Q Who' type episode with Kirk and crew - They meet up with Q who propells them into the Delta Quadrant to meet the Borg a la Picard style. But instead of getting a bloody nose and running like Picard, Kirk and crew kicks their collective asses, freeing them all, much to Q's dislike.

Fanwanky, I know.
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