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Old October 13 2013, 09:05 AM   #16
teacake
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

I will say this for Chak, he's very easy on the eyes
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Old October 13 2013, 11:19 AM   #17
Infern0
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

Beltran, by mid season 2 was clearly a man who was just there for the paycheque.

It's not his fault, the man can act and when given a good script he would spring to life, but he wasn't given enough to do as JEri Taylor basically neutered his character to make janeway seem more badass or whatever
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Old October 13 2013, 12:45 PM   #18
JirinPanthosa
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

I liked Chakotay in episodes where he had action stuff to do like Caretaker, Displaced, Waking Moments. But his actual character development was terrible. They established him as a badass rebel then his actions suggested the exact opposite.
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Old October 13 2013, 01:08 PM   #19
Lance
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

SignGuyHPW wrote: View Post
Why does there seem to be a beef against Commander Chakotay? I always thought he was a descent character.
I agree, his character really was quite a descent. Or more a terminal drop really, all things being considered.
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Old October 13 2013, 01:09 PM   #20
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

teacock wrote: View Post
I will say this for Chak, he's very easy on the eyes
I always found Tuvok to be better looking, never got the Chakotay thing.
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Old October 13 2013, 08:08 PM   #21
SignGuyHPW
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

I have to disagree with a lot of you. I didn't really see Chakotay as some kind of rebel freedom fighter terrorist. He was in the Maquis because of a morale/philosophical disagreement with how Starfleet handled the Cardassians. He was actually a very good Starfleet officer and once the two crews combined into a Starfleet crew then he was prepared to accept being a Starfleet officer again. I also thought that the Native American aspect was pretty different and I enjoyed it.
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Old October 13 2013, 09:31 PM   #22
Anwar
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

The problem was that Beltran never took the job seriously in the first place (him and Garrett Wang) and he was actually phoning it in nearly from day one. Yes, he was sidelined and grew bitter but he never tried to make it better for himself and the sidelining was partly because he wasn't putting in much effort in the first place.

That, and the writers didn't know what to do with him. They never bothered differentiating between him and Janeway enough for there to be a real conflict or dichotomy between them.
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Old October 13 2013, 09:37 PM   #23
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

I thought Beltran was good much of the time, and he really sprang to life in the tense action sequences, even if there wasn't a lot of physical activity going on. You can hear it just in his vocal delivery in some scenes. But if he was stuck as the reacting character in dialogue scenes, he sometimes dropped into a monotone when all he had to do was say lines like "Aye, Captain", "What do you mean?", or "Of course." But he hated "Shattered", where he was the primary character.
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Old October 13 2013, 11:45 PM   #24
NeedleOfInquiry
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

Chakotay doesn't deserve the hate he gets.

I see a lot of people talking about how Chakotay was Janeway's "yes man" but let me ask you this: did Riker ever disobey Picard's orders? How many times does Riker argue with Picard after a decision has been made?

If your answer was "never" or "not often" then would it be fair to say that Riker is Picard's "yes man?" Why the double standard? Doesn't a good first officer carry out his captain's orders? People also criticize Chakotay for being "bland," but since that's such a subjective statement, it's hard to quantify. What measure is "bland?" For example, one could argue that Spock's character is "bland."

What are Spock's hobbies? What does he like to eat? As an exercise, try to describe Spock's personality, without mentioning his job, or the fact that he's a Vulcan. Now, it may seem like I'm trying to raise Chakotay up, by putting Riker and Spock down, so I'll say for a record that I think both Riker and Spock are excellent characters.

But, what do they have that Chakotay doesn't?
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Old October 14 2013, 01:35 AM   #25
teacake
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

Spock enjoys 3D chess, playing a harp type instrument, art and antiquities and googleing stuff (research). His favorite soup is plomeek but he likes to try new and interesting foods such as marshmallows. He enjoys handling pleasant and furry pets. He is widely read in literature from at least two different planets as well as philosophy and history.

I would defo go for a walk on the beach with him.
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Old October 14 2013, 01:37 AM   #26
Timewalker
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

SignGuyHPW wrote: View Post
Why does there seem to be a beef against Commander Chakotay? I always thought he was a descent character. He wasn't the most dynamic Trek character ever, but certainly not the worst I've seen. What's the main complaints against him?
He's boring.

teacock wrote: View Post
I will say this for Chak, he's very easy on the eyes
Uh-uh. I'd rather look at Tom Paris.

NeedleOfInquiry wrote: View Post
Chakotay doesn't deserve the hate he gets.

I see a lot of people talking about how Chakotay was Janeway's "yes man" but let me ask you this: did Riker ever disobey Picard's orders? How many times does Riker argue with Picard after a decision has been made?

If your answer was "never" or "not often" then would it be fair to say that Riker is Picard's "yes man?" Why the double standard? Doesn't a good first officer carry out his captain's orders? People also criticize Chakotay for being "bland," but since that's such a subjective statement, it's hard to quantify. What measure is "bland?" For example, one could argue that Spock's character is "bland."
Riker also knew that if Picard got sufficiently irritated with him, he could be transferred thisfast. Janeway didn't have that luxury, and she needed crewmembers who could fight and who knew how to run a ship.

What are Spock's hobbies? What does he like to eat? As an exercise, try to describe Spock's personality, without mentioning his job, or the fact that he's a Vulcan. Now, it may seem like I'm trying to raise Chakotay up, by putting Riker and Spock down, so I'll say for a record that I think both Riker and Spock are excellent characters.

But, what do they have that Chakotay doesn't?
Spock's hobbies are music and chess. He has a normal routine for meditation in his quarters, and some sort of shrine. He is a vegetarian, and we know he likes plomeek soup. He doesn't normally drink alcohol, but on at least one occasion he surprised Kirk and McCoy by accepting a glass of brandy.

I don't like Riker, but at least he shares two things with Spock: Riker is also a musician, and they both have a personality. That's what Chakotay lacks.
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Old October 14 2013, 01:50 AM   #27
Lindemann's Catch
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

Chuckles... Meh. There has been more acid thrown at Neelix than any other.
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Old October 14 2013, 02:07 AM   #28
teacake
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

Infern0 wrote: View Post
Beltran, by mid season 2 was clearly a man who was just there for the paycheque.
This is the 11nth episode of the FIRST season. Should have been the most dramatic moment of the character's life when he confronts his lover over her betrayal.



This is sooooo bad.. if I was writing for VOY I sure wouldn't give this guy any pivotal scenes.
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Old October 14 2013, 02:13 AM   #29
Dream
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

I wonder why Beltran didn't just ask to be let out of his contract since he hated being on the show so much? Denise Crosby and Wil Wheaton were able to leave very easily when they didn't want to be in TNG anymore.
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Old October 14 2013, 02:19 AM   #30
NeedleOfInquiry
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Re: What's the beef with Chakotay?

teacock wrote: View Post
Spock enjoys 3D chess, playing a harp type instrument, art and antiquities and googleing stuff (research). His favorite soup is plomeek but he likes to try new and interesting foods such as marshmallows. He enjoys handling pleasant and furry pets. He is widely read in literature from at least two different planets as well as philosophy and history.

I would defo go for a walk on the beach with him.
Fair enough.


Riker also knew that if Picard got sufficiently irritated with him, he could be transferred thisfast. Janeway didn't have that luxury, and she needed crewmembers who could fight and who knew how to run a ship.
So, Riker only follower orders, not because he's a good first officer, but because he's afraid of being demoted?

Spock's hobbies are music and chess. He has a normal routine for meditation in his quarters, and some sort of shrine. He is a vegetarian, and we know he likes plomeek soup. He doesn't normally drink alcohol, but on at least one occasion he surprised Kirk and McCoy by accepting a glass of brandy.
Same goes for Chakotay, mostly. Only, Chakotay likes to box, carve, and Spirit Walk. Plus, he enjoys Archaeology.


I don't like Riker, but at least he shares two things with Spock: Riker is also a musician, and they both have a personality. That's what Chakotay lacks.
*shrugs* Again, subjective. Personally, I don't get why people think Chakotay lacks personality.
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