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Old October 12 2013, 11:29 PM   #91
Melakon
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Well, I did used to watch some of those awful Italian sword-and-sandal movies from the 60s that were collectively branded as a "Sons of Hercules" series, because there wasn't anything else on at the time. ["Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?"] And there have been some male actors that I thought were ridiculously good looking (like Richard Denning in his Creature from the Black Lagoon days), but I never felt sexually attracted to them. They just had better physiques and looks than me.

That's what I keep telling myself anyway.
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Old October 13 2013, 02:00 AM   #92
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Melakon wrote: View Post
... both of the regular characters were men, and the androgynous objects of their interest were played by women. I can understand it in terms of comfort levels for the actors ...
In the case of Outcast, Jonathan Frakes did advocate having the "love interest" be played by a male actor, but to no effect.

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
There are some who take a stand though. In "Offspring", Guinan was supposed to tell Lal something along the lines of 'when a man and woman love each other...', but Whoopi refused to and substituted the line 'when two people love each other' instead.
Even there, it was after Lal observe a man and a woman courting in Ten Forward.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
... the country as a whole was a lot less tolerant twenty years ago than it is now.
The only series I'm willing to give a pass to would be TOS, by the late eighties there were regularly gay characters on various TV series. Despite it's occasional reputation, Star Trek was unwilling to push the envelope. By the time of ENT there was no longer any excuse, some of the people I went to High School with commented on the lack of a gay character, in some cases it was a part of the reason they switch to viewing different a show in the same time slot.

Some people point to Reed as the "should have been," looking back now I think that Travis would have been a better choice. Despite some of his comments in the pilot, having him in a relationship with another Enterprise crewman would have worked nicely.

At least it would have given him something to do.

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Old October 13 2013, 07:04 AM   #93
teacake
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

OR maybe you just want to see more of Travis without his shirt?
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Old October 13 2013, 07:47 AM   #94
CommishSleer
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

teacock wrote: View Post
OR maybe you just want to see more of Travis without his shirt?
Done
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Old October 13 2013, 08:35 AM   #95
Tiberius
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I buy there being a "gay gene." By the very nature of homosexuality, wouldn't it have bred itself out by now if there was?

I still think it comes down to choice and that's all it is. I'm pretty sure there isn't a gene that makes me find brunettes more attractive than blondes. Let people live their lives as they choose. Trying to explain personal lifestyle choices with science is... silly.
Being gay is not a choice. I never chose to be straight, and I doubt you did either. So either people choose to be gay (in which case it seems that anyone who is faced with the choice chooses to be gay, so how is it a choice?) or people don't choose to be gay.

In any case, having Down's Syndrome is very much genetic, and it hasn't bred itself out, so your argument that a gay "gene" would have been bred out of humanity is a flawed one.
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Old October 13 2013, 08:44 AM   #96
Tiberius
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
If you mean they can change part of a person's brain so that they are no longer homosexual, I will admit that it may actually be possible ...
A person's sexuality has a lot to do with their overall brain architecture, so it wouldn't just be a matter of changing part of their brain, you'd have to rebuilt the whole structure. Realistically, this would have to happen genetically prior to conception.
I tihnk they would be able to do it in Trek, what with all the other crazy stuff they do.

but the question we must ask is... WHY?
Eugenics, sociological control, political ideology.
None of which seem to apply to the Federation.

But in that case, the current host were "channeling" former hosts who were married. One of the former hosts was male, and the other female. Star Trek has never shown a gay relationship or marriage.
Perhaps, but I doubt it. I can't imagine Sisko being okay with Dax having a relationship with Lenara, but then being aghast at the idea of Dax and Kira.

The production staff certainly did.
The production staff don't exist in-unioverse.

I would disagree, every marriage depicted in-universe was heterosexual, every relationship the same. There was never even a hint of a actual gay character.

Then explain the lack of gays in the future.
How many gay people did I pass when I walking down the city street just now? Probably quite a few. Just because it isn't immediately obvious that a person is gay, doesn't mean they aren't. Maybe Ensign Rager is a lesbian. Maybe Wesley is bi. I'd say Riker could be pansexual, given that he was once in love with a woman who came from a species with only one gender!
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Old October 13 2013, 01:12 PM   #97
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
teacock wrote: View Post
OR maybe you just want to see more of Travis without his shirt?
Done
Of all the human males in ENT, he spent the least amount of time shirtless. A crime if you ask me.
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Old October 13 2013, 01:18 PM   #98
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Tiberius wrote: View Post
I would disagree, every marriage depicted in-universe was heterosexual, every relationship the same. There was never even a hint of a actual gay character.

Then explain the lack of gays in the future.
How many gay people did I pass when I walking down the city street just now? Probably quite a few. Just because it isn't immediately obvious that a person is gay, doesn't mean they aren't. Maybe Ensign Rager is a lesbian. Maybe Wesley is bi. I'd say Riker could be pansexual, given that he was once in love with a woman who came from a species with only one gender!
Lieutenant Hawk in FC was gay, was it an important story point? No, so it didn't need to be mentioned.

We don't see every part of the characters personal lives, so we don't know if Data's last sexual partner before Tasha was a guy, or if Janeway experimented with a female partner at the Academy. Going by the reasoning the "since we never saw it, it doesn't happen", that would mean that Uhura was a virgin, since we never saw her having a romance with anyone aboard ship (unless you want to count that awkward moment with Scotty in TFF). Whilst NuUhura was banging all her professors at the Academy.
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Old October 13 2013, 05:11 PM   #99
Melakon
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Lieutenant Hawk in FC was gay, was it an important story point? No, so it didn't need to be mentioned.
I've read this claim before in articles, and watched FC again last month. As with any plot element, if it's not presented in the film's theatrical cut, it basically doesn't exist, regardless if it was in the original script, a deleted scene, or if Neal McDonough used it as a background for his character. Whether Hawk is gay or not is irrelevant in the film. Sexual/gender identity should really be irrelevant in terms of how we relate to people in our everyday lives as well, unless we're in some sort of sexual relationship with them. It's no one else's business.

It's like when someone asked Dominic Keating if Malcolm was gay, and he enigmatically quipped, "God knows I played him gay."
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Old October 13 2013, 06:25 PM   #100
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Which reminds me to ask a question after having watched STID: At first, it didn't occur to me that this captain could have been Deltan.
He's not. Captain Robau is human.
Indeed.
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Old October 13 2013, 06:56 PM   #101
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

robau wrote: View Post
George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Which reminds me to ask a question after having watched STID: At first, it didn't occur to me that this captain could have been Deltan.
He's not. Captain Robau is human.
Indeed.
Funny: he seemed to be excreting super-pheromones.
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Old October 13 2013, 10:43 PM   #102
iguana_tonante
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

SpaceLover65 wrote: View Post
The "cure" thing was absolutely and completely sarcastic. I thought that was obvious. Apparently I was wrong. And I apologize.
Unfortunately, there are people who think exactly that, and we've had posters expressing such views here before. So you know, once burned and all jazz. I'm happy it was just a misunderstanding.
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Old October 13 2013, 10:47 PM   #103
T'Girl
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Just because it isn't immediately obvious that a person is gay, doesn't mean they aren't.
On a TV series? Of course that's what it means. All the main characters sexualities are heterosexual. All romances, sexual encounters, lustful longings and marriages are heterosexual.

I'd say Riker could be pansexual, given that he was once in love with a woman who came from a species with only one gender!
Riker's "girlfriend" in Outcast was in fact female, while androgynous in appearance the J'naii did have two genders.

The production staff don't exist in-unioverse.
But their attitudes, positions on sexuality and fears do manifest themselves within the series.

but the question we must ask is... WHY?
Eugenics, sociological control, political ideology.
None of which seem to apply to the Federation.
Episodes like Measure of a Man, and Drumhead. Bashir's forbidden genetic enhancements.

.
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Old October 13 2013, 11:01 PM   #104
teacake
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
teacock wrote: View Post
OR maybe you just want to see more of Travis without his shirt?
Done
Of all the human males in ENT, he spent the least amount of time shirtless. A crime if you ask me.

They should have just had him shirtless all the time!

Shirtless on the bridge, just sittin' there at the helm.. shirtless. Every episode. No one would even complain that he didn't speak then.

Solbor's Blood wrote: View Post
robau wrote: View Post
George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post

He's not. Captain Robau is human.
Indeed.
Funny: he seemed to be excreting super-pheromones.


OH yeah..
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Old October 14 2013, 12:27 AM   #105
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Here's the thing. I know of several straight -8 guys who have experimented with other guys. This MOSTLY happens during adolescence. These guys are straight, and perfectly happily married...and would not confess to most people about experimenting with other guys. Lots of women do the same thing...but they seem to get a free pass...and nobody thinks strange of it. But many straight guys have experimented 'some' in their lifetimes...and mostly when they were young...going thru puberty.

So...let' say that in the future...most people are supposed to be a bit more tolerable to same-sex experimentation. Let's take a look at Jim Kirk. He's had sex with just about every type of alien there is to mention...but they are always female. In the latest movie, Kirk is awakened in bed with two alien women...with tails. Surly if Kirk has experimented this MUCH...he's had to have at least one session with another guy. And I bet he has. It would have been hilarious if Kirk had partied hard the night before and got stoned...and instead of waking up with the two women with tails...he wakes up with a huge hangover with some naked andorian or Vulcan guy right beside him. It would have been a hoot! This new movie series especially explores Kirk as a HIGHLY sexual being. So...if Kirk is so danged willing to hump aliens....then it shouldn't be so crazy that he might hook up evey now and then with another human, even if it does happen to be male. It personally wouldn't bother me.
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