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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 30 2013, 09:05 PM   #496
Pauln6
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I found the Keenser story to be a bit childishly insulting to 'disability' in the workplace (Keenser standing on a box to reach consoles)
Insulting to whom? Maybe it was insulting to the Starfleet designers, demonstrating their failure to design with accessibility in mind, but I think Keenser came off in a positive light and was able to adapt to his circumstances.
Sorry, I meant insulting to disabled workers generally. I just found its approach to be blinkered and simplistic. In modern times employers are under an obligation to make reasonable alterations to the workplace to accommodate disabled employees. Many disabled workers are denied unlawfully jobs because employers don't want to make those accommodations.

It's a bit frustrating that Keenser's height was deemed to be worthy as a focus as to why he struggled to do his job when actually, after 6 months, his employer was under a duty to ensure that his workplace was adapted. Or give him a portable anti-grav step.

It just speaks to a level of ignorance in the writing; it's the kind of thing that frustrates disabled people that I know.

It was also silly that the engineers don't have robotic drones to go into crawl spaces that are too small for crewmen.

I'm sure there are many plausible reasons that able-bodied people might like to come up with to justify Scotty's lax approach to his colleague's needs but the story should have been, 'Keenser is a great engineer' with a focus on his personality instead of 'little people are a bit crap but they can be really useful sometimes'.
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Old September 30 2013, 09:33 PM   #497
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Sorry, I meant insulting to disabled workers generally. I just found its approach to be blinkered and simplistic. In modern times employers are under an obligation to make reasonable alterations to the workplace to accommodate disabled employees. Many disabled workers are denied unlawfully jobs because employers don't want to make those accommodations.
Like I said, it reflects badly on Starfleet, but not so much on Keenser.


It's a bit frustrating that Keenser's height was deemed to be worthy as a focus as to why he struggled to do his job when actually, after 6 months, his employer was under a duty to ensure that his workplace was adapted. Or give him a portable anti-grav step.
I find the timing rather ambiguous. I've heard -- and followed -- the suggestion that the story takes place before the end of the 2009 movie, while the ship is being repaired prior to the final scene.


It just speaks to a level of ignorance in the writing; it's the kind of thing that frustrates disabled people that I know.
That's a fair point. It does annoy me that Starfleet ships are designed in such a human-centric way (and typically-proportioned human at that) rather than accommodating the range of diverse body types that aliens would have.


I'm sure there are many plausible reasons that able-bodied people might like to come up with to justify Scotty's lax approach to his colleague's needs but the story should have been, 'Keenser is a great engineer' with a focus on his personality instead of 'little people are a bit crap but they can be really useful sometimes'.
I didn't get that sense from the story at all. I felt it was sympathetic to Keenser's frustrations being a small person in a world that wasn't designed with his needs in mind, while making it quite clear that he was just as worthy of respect as anyone else.
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Old October 1 2013, 03:12 AM   #498
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Christopher wrote: View Post
It does annoy me that Starfleet ships are designed in such a human-centric way (and typically-proportioned human at that) rather than accommodating the range of diverse body types that aliens would have.
I recall the little dossier on TMP's Rhaandarites that suggested that Billy Van Zandt's ensign character was "78 years young" (thus "Alien Boy" in the credits), and that mature Rhaandarites could be well over eight feet tall. Adult Rhaandarites probably wouldn't have a hope of serving on regular starships. It intrigued me in my fanfics in the 80s, and I recall you addressed adult Rhaandarite heights in your recent DTI novels.

Remember Security Officer Sterno, in PAD's ST comics, who couldn't even fit into a comic panel with his colleagues? I didn't even notice the way they drew him until about my fourth rereading.

I felt it was sympathetic to Keenser's frustrations being a small person in a world that wasn't designed with his needs in mind, while making it quite clear that he was just as worthy of respect as anyone else.
Me too.

I guess they could have given him an antigrav platform (like seen in TMP). I don't recall; was it just a regular box? A 12-pack of canned tomatoes?
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Old October 1 2013, 09:05 AM   #499
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

All good points. I suppose it irritates me because the needs of the disabled are very often an afterthought in the modern world and in this story the same was true again. It also plays into my general frustration that Keenser is a senior officer (and in STiD it looks like he might be the assistant chief) but he is consistently portrayed as a dogsbody. If they just want him to be a light comedy relief then stick to that. If they want him to also be a senior officer, they should also portray him as such instead of just calling him one and portraying him like a junior officer or crewman with cutting one worders and mild comedy antics.
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Old October 2 2013, 04:13 AM   #500
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
If they just want him to be a light comedy relief then stick to that. If they want him to also be a senior officer, they should also portray him as such instead of just calling him one and portraying him like a junior officer or crewman with cutting one worders and mild comedy antics.
I know you're talking about Keenser... but it sounds like you're talking about NuScotty...
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Old October 2 2013, 08:30 AM   #501
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
If they just want him to be a light comedy relief then stick to that. If they want him to also be a senior officer, they should also portray him as such instead of just calling him one and portraying him like a junior officer or crewman with cutting one worders and mild comedy antics.
I know you're talking about Keenser... but it sounds like you're talking about NuScotty...
Lol that's a WHOLE other thing. Been watching TOS on CBS action occasionally. I lament the loss of so much of TOS Scotty's personality...

Scotty in the comic is channeling a bit more of Doohan than the movies and Scotty in STiD was channeling a bit more of Doohan than in the first movie. Maybe we'll get to a happy medium.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:36 AM   #502
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

I think they have more freedom in the comics than they do on the big screen.
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Old October 11 2013, 05:32 AM   #503
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Maybe we'll get to a happy medium.
I'm sure Scotty met a happy medium on Argelius II sometime...
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Old October 11 2013, 07:17 AM   #504
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

timothy wrote: View Post
I think they have more freedom in the comics than they do on the big screen.
The opposite. The comics are a licensed tie-in, and have to follow the onscreen example.
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Old October 12 2013, 04:36 PM   #505
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

But they do have the luxury of spending some time developing the supporting characters in the comics. At least, I hope they will. At present, of the third tier characters only Keenser and Cupcake have had any development; other characters have done little more than deliver a line or two. But there are encouraging signs that Sulu, Chekov, Uhura, Carol, and Scotty will be developed a bit. I don't expect to see Kirk and Carol get together in the comic unless officially sanctioned for the next movie though.
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Old October 12 2013, 08:29 PM   #506
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

I have to say, I'm not overly fond of the way all the Klingons in the comic now apparently have the same forehead ridges as that one in STID, even down to the piercings. Why can't they have more variety?
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Old October 12 2013, 09:15 PM   #507
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Noddy wrote: View Post
I have to say, I'm not overly fond of the way all the Klingons in the comic now apparently have the same forehead ridges as that one in STID, even down to the piercings. Why can't they have more variety?
Since we haven't seen this type of Klingon before, this is variety. The story is attempting to ride the publicity trail of STiD. Why wouldn't they use the designs from that movie for this particular storyline?

The nature of a "media tie-in".

In all of Trek, like-marked Klingons do seem to congregate. Kor's people all had his skin tones in TOS. All the Klingons in TMP had the spinal column crest look. In ST V, they all had fine, twisty crests. In TNG they were often played by African American actors. And so on.
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Old October 12 2013, 10:09 PM   #508
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Kor's people all had his skin tones in TOS.
Actually the ones in "Friday's Child" and "The Trouble With Tribbles" did not. Fred Phillips apparently forgot how he'd done the makeup in "Errand of Mercy" (though he later remembered).

Differences in alien design are differences in artistic interpretation. No surprise that tie-ins to a specific part of the franchise would use its version of the designs.
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Old October 12 2013, 10:10 PM   #509
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Noddy wrote: View Post
I have to say, I'm not overly fond of the way all the Klingons in the comic now apparently have the same forehead ridges as that one in STID, even down to the piercings. Why can't they have more variety?
Reminds me of DC comics' post-STII comics, which brought back Kor but with the TMP Klingon head and costume.

I should point out that we saw somewhat different Abramsverse Klingons (TOS uniforms and wrinkly ridges) in the Nero mini series.
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Old October 12 2013, 10:19 PM   #510
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Reminds me of DC comics' post-STII comics, which brought back Kor but with the TMP Klingon head and costume.
Koloth first in issues 1-2, then Kor in 3-4, with both of their appearances changed. And they killed off Koloth, apparently, though he later came back without explanation, and in his original appearance.
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