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Old October 12 2013, 02:08 PM   #76
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Wow! You're a mighty deep thinker. You could out-think me right on the spot any day of the week. I just try to enjoy the books, tv shows, and movies and not out-think too much of it. I thought the Deltan thing odd from the start...but don't worry about it. I watched a youtube video that was narrated by Leonard Nimoy. He talked about all kinds of interesting things...his favorite shows...how they came up with the Vulcan pinch and the Vulcan sign of peace. He also said that NONE of the actors liked the first movie. They thought it strange....and that it didn't match up well with the tv show.
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Old October 12 2013, 05:11 PM   #77
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Okay. I just rewatched the episode, Star Trek Phase 2: "Blood and Fire." It was okay, but only okay. It's an exact remake of the original series, but with a new story. The Enterprise, the uniforms, just about everything matched the original series. It had the same characters, but different actors. However, the only thing really interesting is the love scene between Peter Kirk and his boyfriend Alex. Peter Kirk is pretty hot by the way. Most of the actors did NOT match the original series. I would say that the best match was Chekov. That actor was pretty much perfect. In the original series the actors looked really flattering and smart in their uniforms. However, this is not the case for this series. The uniforms made most of the actors look fat and dumpy. If you had the slightest tummy, it bulged and looked unflattering. Even handsome Peter Kirk looked a bit dumpy in his Starfleet uniform - when it's obvious he's in great shape (he removes his shirt in part of the episode.) I'd venture to say that Kirk and Chekov looked the best in their uniforms...however the actor who played Kirk definitely did not fill William Shatner's shoes in the least. The actress who played Tasha Yar in Next Generation had a part. She played her own great-grandmother in the episode. The plot and story were a bit weak...however, the romance between Peter Kirk and his boyfriend, Alex was interesting.
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Old October 12 2013, 05:52 PM   #78
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Wow! You're a mighty deep thinker. You could out-think me right on the spot any day of the week.
Okay. I just rewatched the episode, Star Trek Phase 2: "Blood and Fire."
You do realize I was talking about the proposed TV series which was abandoned and replaced by TMP, the series for which Ilia was originally created? (Not that there is anything wrong with the Phase II fan films, it's just not what I was referring to.)
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Old October 12 2013, 05:58 PM   #79
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

teacock wrote: View Post
I will be happy when NuSpock and Pine's Kirk finally get it on, you know with canon and all that.
The sexual tension between these two is obvious, especially with the NuTrek versions it sizzles. They have far more chemistry in five seconds of screen time than NuSpock and NuUhura have had in two films.

Come on Abrams, give us the proper TOS love story!
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Old October 12 2013, 06:07 PM   #80
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

To Captain Solbor's Blood: No. Actually I thought you were referring to the original movie...which had a Deltan. The only thing I know about Deltans are with the original movie...and a book that I read probably twenty years ago. I had heard that a new Star Trek for tv was in the makes....but I didn't realize that it had been discarded. That's too bad. My Star Trek knowledge has kinda gone downhill I must admit. I fell in love with Enterprise back in the early 2000's. But then the show became so convoluted and confusing that I couldn't figure anything out anymore. So I kinda became disinterested in Star Trek for a while. I wasn't crazy about the movie version with Chris Pine. However, I really enjoyed Star Trek Into Darkness. Anyway, I also very recently discovered there was also a 2004 remake of Lost In Space. See, how behind the time I am? It was made in 2004 and I never knew anything about it until a few days ago. I was on youtube and it said "2004 unaired piot for Lost In Space." The pilot was never sold...or seen on tv. I think youtube's the only place you can see it. And EVERYONE absolutely hated it. However, weirdo that I am.... I loved it. If the pilot had sold...it would have quickly become my favorite.

Last edited by SpaceLover65; October 12 2013 at 06:24 PM.
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Old October 12 2013, 07:33 PM   #81
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Tiberius wrote: View Post
If you mean they can change part of a person's brain so that they are no longer homosexual, I will admit that it may actually be possible ...
A person's sexuality has a lot to do with their overall brain architecture, so it wouldn't just be a matter of changing part of their brain, you'd have to rebuilt the whole structure. Realistically, this would have to happen genetically prior to conception.

but the question we must ask is... WHY?
Eugenics, sociological control, political ideology.

After all, when Jadzia was going after Lenara, no one at all was concerned that it was two women.
But in that case, the current host were "channeling" former hosts who were married. One of the former hosts was male, and the other female. Star Trek has never shown a gay relationship or marriage.

People in trek don't seem to see homosexuality as a problem.
The production staff certainly did.

They seem to view homosexuality much the same way that we view left-handed-ness something that was stupidly worried about in the past but is really no big deal.
I would disagree, every marriage depicted in-universe was heterosexual, every relationship the same. There was never even a hint of a actual gay character.

Or a deal at all. So for the people of the 24th century to work to change people so they aren't gay makes about as much sense as people in our society working to cure left-handedness.
Then explain the lack of gays in the future.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I buy there being a "gay gene."
Not a single gene to be sure.

By the very nature of homosexuality, wouldn't it have bred itself out by now if there was?
That isn't how heredity works. It has to do with dominant and recessive alleles, just because you and your partner have brown eyes, does stop your child from having blue eyes.

Just because you and your partner are both heterosexual, does stop your child from being born gay.

'm pretty sure there isn't a gene that makes me find brunettes more attractive than blondes.
But whether you're attracted to brunette men or brunette women is genetic.

(OO)
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Old October 12 2013, 08:15 PM   #82
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
But whether you're attracted to brunette men or brunette women is genetic.
But what if you fantasize about brunettes (for example), but you only date blondes?
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Last edited by Ho Ho Homeier; October 12 2013 at 08:20 PM. Reason: to be more specific
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Old October 12 2013, 08:16 PM   #83
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Unfortunately, I have to agree with a lot of the above. IF Star Trek were truly pro gay - then they would have had at least one major character by now who WAS gay. The only example was the Jadzia Dax thing...and the poster above explained that. There hasn't even been secondary minor characters that were gay. The ONLY example that I'm aware of is Peter Kirk in Star Trek Phase 2. And I don't think that was particularly cannon. I don't think the episode even aired...but went directly to youtube. I've heard of books with gay characters. Really the only one that I know for sure in the books is Uhura and she admits to being bisexual and has an affair with a woman. But I HAVE to agree with the poster above. Just where the heck are all the gay people in the future in Star Trek land?
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Old October 12 2013, 08:18 PM   #84
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

SpaceLover65 wrote: View Post
I would disagree, every marriage depicted in-universe was heterosexual, every relationship the same. There was never even a hint of a actual gay character.
Not to be argumentative, Trek hasn't done heterosexual marriage particularly well. For the most part, character are married to the job or to the ship, and relationships are mostly passing flings. There are casual references to off-screen marriages, but otherwise there have only been three real depictions of marital life, two coming from the same series, only one being between two actual humans.

Indeed, Trek doesn't do well with adult relationships, heterosexual or homosexual or otherwise. At least with Dax-Kahn, the renewal of the relationship had to be worked out in their current bodies rather than wait for the right configuration to occur that would allow them to carry on as their marriage had been founded (and indeed, there are plenty of couples, gay and straight, who must deal with changes to one partner's body, be it due to violence, accident, or diseases--it's not that easy).
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Old October 12 2013, 10:37 PM   #85
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

There are some who take a stand though. In "Offspring", Guinan was supposed to tell Lal something along the lines of 'when a man and woman love each other...', but Whoopi refused to and substituted the line 'when two people love each other' instead.

Simple things like that are always nice to see, but it shouldn't have to fall to an actor to make the change--that should be the ethos from the very top down to the very bottom (no pun intended ).
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Old October 12 2013, 10:43 PM   #86
teacake
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
teacock wrote: View Post
I will be happy when NuSpock and Pine's Kirk finally get it on, you know with canon and all that.
The sexual tension between these two is obvious, especially with the NuTrek versions it sizzles. They have far more chemistry in five seconds of screen time than NuSpock and NuUhura have had in two films.

Come on Abrams, give us the proper TOS love story!
Totally agree though I'm thinking after so many decades the slash is like some secret crack and maybe I don't want to give that up?
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Old October 12 2013, 10:43 PM   #87
R. Star
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
There are some who take a stand though. In "Offspring", Guinan was supposed to tell Lal something along the lines of 'when a man and woman love each other...', but Whoopi refused to and substituted the line 'when two people love each other' instead.

Simple things like that are always nice to see, but it shouldn't have to fall to an actor to make the change--that should be the ethos from the very top down to the very bottom (no pun intended ).

I hadn't heard that before. That was subtle enough that I missed it. The thing of it though, the country as a whole was a lot less tolerant twenty years ago than it is now. So I can see why the execs and writers wouldn't go out of their way to embrace the idea.

But yeah, as juvenile as Trek typically is about anything sexual, it's probably a good thing they really didn't try to get out the homosexual message lest it become a farce.
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Old October 12 2013, 10:45 PM   #88
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

I've been disappointed twice by how Trek has presented androgynous species. With TNG: The Outcast and ENT: Cogenitor, both of the regular characters were men, and the androgynous objects of their interest were played by women. I can understand it in terms of comfort levels for the actors, but acting is about taking RISKS! goddammit, and would have put an entirely different spin on it with male guest actors.
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Old October 12 2013, 10:45 PM   #89
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

I just watched a few more Star Trek Phase II episodes. Peter Kirk has disappeared suddenly. Last I saw him he was promising his Uncle Jim that he was going to stay aboard the Enterprise. Well...so much for that gay character. I noticed in this series that the actors playing the characters seem to change in every episode...except for Kirk and McCoy. I just watched World Enough And Time. I don't know what they did to the actor who portrays Kirk...but he was actually kinda hot looking in this particular feature. They really did a makeover on the actor and WOW! George T. the original Sulu also has a part in this feature. But I missed Peter Kirk.
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Old October 12 2013, 10:52 PM   #90
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Melakon wrote: View Post
Unspeakable wrote: View Post
But whether you're attracted to brunette men or brunette women is genetic.
But what if you fantasize about brunettes (for example), but you only date blondes?
You're a playah!

I have no idea about genetics. I do think it's funny though that people will say it's a choice for everyone and yet if you asked them if they are consciously choosing to only be attracted to their opposite gender or if they could choose to be attracted to their own gender they will deny it. I am NOT saying anyone in this thread does so, it's just an easy way to flip it round when people say it's a choice. Our hardwiring is often so hardlwired we don't see it, we just notice wiring in other people that seems glaringly different to our own.

I also think some of us are so bi or pan or fluid or whatever word you want to use that we can choose to pursue one of our many preferences over others, for whatever reason. But the majority of people don't have that.
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