RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,618
Posts: 5,426,263
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 407
Newest member: 8 of 9

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 10 2013, 03:51 AM   #46
Nob Akimoto
Captain
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
View Nob Akimoto's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

No need to apologize. Nitpicks are always appreciated.

Why did T'Pragh serve 4 terms as the UFP President? If 3 terms were considered unprecedented?
T'Pragh's term ended in 2357 (at least in this text). I'm aware that Memory Beta suggests she served until 2365, but that's conjecture based on the fact that Amitra served one term from 2365 - 2369.

Ergo I assumed she served in the 2350s, starting with the 2348 electoral cycle and ending with the 2356 cycle. (Meaning she left office in 2357) This was predicated on: She was an admiral in the 2280s-2290s, therefore was probably already a fairly older Vulcan. And that she was dead by 2380, which unless she went back to active service and died in the Dominion War, would probably mean she died of natural causes. Given Vulcan lifespans I don't think it was likely that someone would serve their presidential terms as a Vulcan when they were within a decade of dying. That seemed...illogical. Actuarial realities of remaining lifespan etc. are probably more than clear in the 24th century, and in a system with a loose line of succession like the Federation's, it doesn't seem likely she'd choose a time period where she was likely to die to be president.

Also the end years of the wars seem strange, as the Tzenkethi War ended before '64 and the Cardassian one had the ceasefire in '66 and a peace treaty in '70?
So far as I'm aware, the only reference to the Tzenkethi War being over by 2364 is Will Riker's line in Orion's Hounds which I assumed to have been the end of the Federation's "shock and awe" offensive. 2365 was a convenient point for the actual treaty ratification, but that might as you say, need revising.

For the Cardassian Conflict, I assumed 2368ish was when the final treaty terms were agreed t and the actual treaty ratified once Jaresh-Inyo took office (and after the McAllistair Nebula incident). I may simply just move it to 2366 for the cease fire, since that serves the narrative fine.
Nob Akimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 09:50 AM   #47
Hando
Lieutenant Commander
 
Hando's Avatar
 
Send a message via ICQ to Hando Send a message via AIM to Hando Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Hando Send a message via Yahoo to Hando
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
No need to apologize. Nitpicks are always appreciated.

Why did T'Pragh serve 4 terms as the UFP President? If 3 terms were considered unprecedented?
T'Pragh's term ended in 2357 (at least in this text). I'm aware that Memory Beta suggests she served until 2365, but that's conjecture based on the fact that Amitra served one term from 2365 - 2369.

Ergo I assumed she served in the 2350s, starting with the 2348 electoral cycle and ending with the 2356 cycle. (Meaning she left office in 2357) This was predicated on: She was an admiral in the 2280s-2290s, therefore was probably already a fairly older Vulcan. And that she was dead by 2380, which unless she went back to active service and died in the Dominion War, would probably mean she died of natural causes. Given Vulcan lifespans I don't think it was likely that someone would serve their presidential terms as a Vulcan when they were within a decade of dying. That seemed...illogical. Actuarial realities of remaining lifespan etc. are probably more than clear in the 24th century, and in a system with a loose line of succession like the Federation's, it doesn't seem likely she'd choose a time period where she was likely to die to be president.
Actually, it is the other way around. We know that she served during the Tzenkethi War, for a fact - at least as far as we take facts.

If we take that the war was in the early 60s that would mean that she served the 2361-2365 term.
Of course if the war started in the late 50s she could have served the preceeding term.

As to her age, she could be what 70, 80, 90 as a admiral in 2290s, that would leave her still healthy enough during the mid-late 24th century. But apparently, she answered to Vulcan High Command, so who knows how fast a Vulcan rises to admiralty.


Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
Also the end years of the wars seem strange, as the Tzenkethi War ended before '64 and the Cardassian one had the ceasefire in '66 and a peace treaty in '70?
So far as I'm aware, the only reference to the Tzenkethi War being over by 2364 is Will Riker's line in Orion's Hounds which I assumed to have been the end of the Federation's "shock and awe" offensive. 2365 was a convenient point for the actual treaty ratification, but that might as you say, need revising.

For the Cardassian Conflict, I assumed 2368ish was when the final treaty terms were agreed t and the actual treaty ratified once Jaresh-Inyo took office (and after the McAllistair Nebula incident). I may simply just move it to 2366 for the cease fire, since that serves the narrative fine.
I take your point.
I checked the Articles of the Federation and yes the Tzenkethi War was over in 2365, but that is if we use integer years and the dangerously round 15 years before 2380.
Also the '64-'65 distinction can be only because of ceasefire/peace treaty.
__________________
The end justifies the means. So do not put canon on a pedestal. We are here to talk Star Trek not only one of its facets.
Hando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 05:34 PM   #48
Nob Akimoto
Captain
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
View Nob Akimoto's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

Well, just took a look at my copy of Articles again. The Appendix tells us that Ra-ghorateii actually served 3 terms, and took over after the special election to replace Roth in 2288. So him being in office from 2289 - 2300 is correct.

Sulu being President is from IIRC The Return, but that was the only place where it was claimed 3 presidential terms was unprecedented. That can't be the case if Ra-ghorateii served 3 terms, unless the lack of precedent means that there wasn't anyone who had won 3 standard elections in a row rather than 1 special election (even if for a mostly full term) and 2 follow up elections.

Also "unprecedented" was as of the time Sulu took office (2330s). Which means by the 2350s it might have become something of a de facto term limit. So there's nothing preventing T'Pragh from serving till 2364.

OTOH, Amitra being a pandrilite, I have no idea what her species' average lifespan is like. If T'Pragh served 3 terms, it would mean she was a cabinet minister for 20 years. Which seems like a really long time to be a cabinet minister. (OTOH if she was the equivalent of the Secretary of State she might have thus wielded sufficient diplomatic leverage to actually push through the end of the Tzenkethi, Talarian and Cardassian conflicts).

Also she's still alive circa 2380...

Re the Tzenkethi War.

My timeline is definitely off.

Dr. Emmanueli thinks about not having spoken to her children in 15 years. She became estranged from her children because they believed she'd lied to them about dying. She was held by the Tzenkethi for 4 years, some of which was after the conflict ended. Which means the Tzenkethi War could have ended anywhere from 16 - 20 years prior to 2380. (The time when she was declared dead is described as "after the Armistice" though so it might be before a final peace treaty.)

At the same time, Sisko's experiences under Leyton on Okinawa took place sometime after 2360 from the events if Catalyst of Sorrows are to be believed.

A Singular Destiny says Sonek Pran wrote his monograph in 2351 and T'Pragh brought him to the Palais to discuss it at the time. Sonek also describes his service to the Federation government as having spanned 3 decades as of 2381. So it seems pretty clear T'Pragh was in office in the early 2350s. Moreover he also served as an adviser to Jaresh-Inyo and Amitra, as well as one more unnamed President (Esperanza notes 3 other presidents other than T'Pragh kept consulting Sonek and since Zife cold-shouldered him, there's someone other than our named presidents in there).

One fudge may be that Bacco describes there being multiple wars with the Tzenkethi (meaning the Tzenkethi might have tried to attack the evil empire several times during T'Pragh Administration, but it was only during a successor admin where Starfleet decided enough was enough). But I will have to revise and resubmit later on this chapter.

Pah!
Nob Akimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 07:53 PM   #49
Nob Akimoto
Captain
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
View Nob Akimoto's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

A rather more treknobabble laced section.

Another side bar: Pressure hulls to trussed macrofilaments.

From Pressure Hulls to Trussed-Macrofilaments: Structural Techniques
The mission requirements of Starfleet starships require that they combine a mixture of impossible material qualities. Hulls are expected to simultaneously be light, hard, tough, with good thermal properties to withstand both extremes of high and low temperature. As a consequence construction techniques reflected the need of yard engineers to bridge the gap between demands of designers and the reality of materials science.

Starfleet hull design initially followed a combination of UESF, Andorian and Vulcan traditions, emphasizing the use of high density duranium alloys in the outer pressure hulls with rigid bulkhead construction. Internal partitions and structures served as part of the starship's loadbearing structure. Interspersed between rigid duranium alloy frames were ceramic heat dissipation materials and ductile polymers entwined at nanomaterial scales to provide a form of hull insulation. Pressure hulls were armored with a layer of ceramic thermal dissipation material and yield inducing cushioning. This was then covered with high-density armor plating formed of a polarizable duranium-tungsten alloy which could be easily replaced after a firefight. Polarized hull plating provided near immunity from kinetic kill weaponry, but suffered from problems with thermal conductivity from high thermal energy weapon like particle weaponry and fusion munitions.

Advances in graviton based shields in the 23rd century encouraged Starfleet to forego high density armor plating on the exterior of their starships. Instead the pressure hulls were coated with a white-grey thermal coating which helped protect the vulnerable pressure hull from energy weapon discharges and stellar phenomenae.

Unlike the semi-monocoque pressure hull designs of the Columbia or Daedalus classes, starships of the 23rd century were primarily built from internal frame construction with an empashis on resisting compression forces. Transverse bulkheads were common on all Starfleet designs in this era, the result creating tall, but inflexible cooridors within the internal hull. When additional material strength was required, a limited form of polarization could be used on internal bulkheads to strengthen the hull during high periods of stress such as during warp acceleration.

The emphasis on internal framing was also based on the reality that Starfleet ships faced frequent replacement and repair of external hull components in this era. In particular the thermal coat would often face damage from highly concentrated plasma weaponry like Romulan designs or more tightly confined energy weapons like Klingon disruptors. The intent was to allow most of the energy to be absorbed and scattered by the thermal coat, leaving key structural frames intact.

The advantage of this method of construction was evident when Starfleet proceeded with the Constitution-class refit program in the 2270s. The differentiation of the ship components from the internal frames allowed Starfleet to essentially strip Enterprise to her bones and rebuild her with new components. The main drawbacks to this method of construction were the relative inefficient use of spaceframe volume, significant mass, limited modularity of internal compartments, and a general limit on frame size.

Two-layer forcefield designs which vastly improved thermal dissipation allowed Starfleet to do without the heavy ceramic based thermal coat. Additionally, lighter and more ductile trititanium was used for outer hull segments. The combination of the two innovations allowed Starfleet starships in the 2270s to 2290s to substantially improve in performance metrics over their predecessors of the 2260s.

However, it was clear by 2280 that Starfleet's older cruiser designs were beginning to suffer from structural fatigue. Internal frame components were difficult to replace without replacing the entire vessel, and Starfleet Engineering sought a way to extend the lifespan of these ships without a costly rebuild. The solution was provided by Salazaar's half-aenar master shipwright Be'tham Assam. A series of light tritanium metal truss and riders were inserted between ceiling panels of the bulkhead compartments. Each of these trusses were then reinforced with a variable strength version of hull polarization, adjusting their strength as required by hull stresses.

Designers of the Excelsior-class project immediately latched onto the increased hull strength provided by the arrangement. Captain Sephara Rule developed a system combining reinforced alloyed trusses against an external stress hull. The stress hull replaced the concept of a sealed pressure hull and substantially reduced the need for an internal compression hull. The initial prototype NX-2000 was not equipped with a fully fledged structural integrity field as concerns existed about the stability of subspace based graviton forcefields under transwarp conditions. Still, the first use of a trussed frame based external hull skeleton with gamma welded stress hull was a significant step forward in starship construction.

Subsequent production of conventional warp drive Excelsior-class starships allowed ASDB to test the idea of a subspace forcefield based structural integrity field. Compared to traditional IMRF and alloy polarization combinations that were limited to strength increases in the 1-4,000% range, the new truss-integrated SIF emitters allowed structural strength increases of up to 25,000%. This made the basic Excelsior-class frame substantially stronger than existing designs. This additional structural strength enabled everything from greater sublight and warp acceleration to greater space frame endurance.

Improvements to existing starship designs were just as pronounced. Although the Miranda-class of 2310 was externally identical to the same design from 2270, the hull featured a structural strength nearly ten times greater at full load. Primary hull internal volume was increased by 25%, while hull mass decreased from 3 tons/m to 1.9 tons/m. On the whole this allowed the ships to triple their maximum impulse acceleration and the hull to withstand the stress generated by higher density warp coils of the latest generation of LN-64 based designs. For the crew this meant substantially improved habitability conditions and a greater mission endurance.

Construction in the 24th century followed up with larger and more ambitious applications of SIF-integrated trussed-frame designs. Comparison of ships named Enterprise is instructive. NCC-1701-A had a payload volume of 280,000 m. Commissioned just 10 years later, her Excelsior-class successor featured 975,000 m. The following half-century would introduce NCC-1701-C with 2,800,000 m which in turn would be dwarfed by NCC-1701-D's 5,800,000 m in 2363. The Sovereign class featured a slightly smaller volume, but NCC-1701-E's trussed-frame is capable of a 200,000% increase in materials strength compared to NCC-1701-B's 25,000%.

The materials themselves underwent a substantial improvement as well. Phase-transition bonding allowed seamless creation of outer stress hulls that mixed the best characteristics of duranium and trititanium. Improvements in subspace field modulated graviton manipulation nanoscale crystal formation by 2350 allowed the refinement of unalloyed tritanium latices, which could then be phase-transition bonded to duranium to form lighter, stronger trussed frames. Ships built in the 2360s featured substantial improvements to their overall hull integrity due to these material advancements.
Nob Akimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2013, 01:13 AM   #50
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

That reads pretty well but I think your -A and Excelsior volumes are a bit high.
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2013, 01:14 AM   #51
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

Awesome! I like how you explain why Wolf 359 was so extraordinary. It also sounds like we're thinking pretty similarly about how the idea of pressure compartments gives way to your SIF truss notions.

Regarding the former, it's been my thought that, as Shaw once suggested, each of the pressure compartments would be built separately, then assembled in drydock onto the main endoskeleton and the hull built around it, essentially creating a double hull both where compartments meet and around the ship's exterior where the outer hull covers the inner hulls of the compartments. (This would be what could make crazy refits like the Enterprise refit of TMP even plausible.) Unless I read incorrectly, I believe you think roughly the same.

Regarding the SIF truss model, it's my belief based on what's stated in the TNG TM that the exterior hull basically forms an exoskeleton around hull framing members, with all decks and compartments "hanging" inside, rather than being built around an endoskeleton. I should think one of the advantages of this would be a greater degree of hull flexibility and an ability to resist shocks better than the previous generation of ships.

Regarding newer ships being built using the new technology, is it your thought that these ships would completely abandon the hull pressure compartment model and essentially have completely adaptable interiors, or would still retain a pressure compartment design but be augmented by truss SIF fields?
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2013, 01:22 AM   #52
Nob Akimoto
Captain
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
View Nob Akimoto's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

Regarding the former, it's been my thought that, as Shaw once suggested, each of the pressure compartments would be built separately, then assembled in drydock onto the main endoskeleton and the hull built around it, essentially creating a double hull both where compartments meet and around the ship's exterior where the outer hull covers the inner hulls of the compartments. (This would be what could make crazy refits like the Enterprise refit of TMP even plausible.) Unless I read incorrectly, I believe you think roughly the same.
You've read it correctly. Essentially the problem supposedly in older 2270s refit ships by the 2280s is that the structural stresses on the skeleton were causing problems with compression and structural frames. Hence putting trussed bracings in the pressure compartments is meant to help relieve some of that pressure.

Your interpretation of the trussed macrofilament model is also more or less correct, though the TNGTM also suggests the frames are then welded with the outer hull members into a combined stress hull with the interior being suspended by a separate lattice work that has substantial shock flexibility.

Using an automobile comparison, one might consider the old system the ancient American loved body on frame construction and the newer system being a semi-monocoque design.

Regarding newer ships being built using the new technology, is it your thought that these ships would completely abandon the hull pressure compartment model and essentially have completely adaptable interiors, or would still retain a pressure compartment design but be augmented by truss SIF fields?
I'm a little torn on this one. I think this would be a gradual evolution, but that a Miranda constructed in 2310 vs 2330, the latter would no longer be using the hull compartment model. The interiors we see of TNG/DS9 era TMP design ships suggest that these have interior commonality with modern Federation ships. (See: Saratoga from "The Emissary" or albeit non-canon, the Righteous from "Star Trek: Borg")
Nob Akimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2013, 01:25 AM   #53
Nob Akimoto
Captain
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
View Nob Akimoto's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
That reads pretty well but I think your -A and Excelsior volumes are a bit high.
Enterprise-B had somewhat higher internal volume than the base Excelsior from what I remember. It was in the order of around 900,000 m last I remember.
Nob Akimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2013, 08:44 PM   #54
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
You've read it correctly. Essentially the problem supposedly in older 2270s refit ships by the 2280s is that the structural stresses on the skeleton were causing problems with compression and structural frames. Hence putting trussed bracings in the pressure compartments is meant to help relieve some of that pressure.
Cool, glad I was on the same page there.

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
Your interpretation of the trussed macrofilament model is also more or less correct, though the TNGTM also suggests the frames are then welded with the outer hull members into a combined stress hull with the interior being suspended by a separate lattice work that has substantial shock flexibility.

Using an automobile comparison, one might consider the old system the ancient American loved body on frame construction and the newer system being a semi-monocoque design.
Ahh, the car comparison makes it perfectly clear. I was thinking that in TOS the compartments and skeleton would be of equal importance to the hull and skeleton in terms of structural strength, but that for TNG the hull and attached frame would be far more important - freeing up the internal arrangement to be whatever the designers wanted it to be without having to cram everything into compartments.

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
I'm a little torn on this one. I think this would be a gradual evolution, but that a Miranda constructed in 2310 vs 2330, the latter would no longer be using the hull compartment model. The interiors we see of TNG/DS9 era TMP design ships suggest that these have interior commonality with modern Federation ships. (See: Saratoga from "The Emissary" or albeit non-canon, the Righteous from "Star Trek: Borg")
Yeah, that's along the lines of what I thought... at a certain point it just doesn't make sense to rebuild the old designs to me, though, if you're essentially redesigning them.

I'm also rather torn about just how useful even a redesigned Miranda would actually be. The Saratoga seemed to have accomodations for family and has new tech, but I wonder just how many crew she actually had aboard? Did she have a small operational crew, similar to but larger than that of the Lantree, as a result of automation, thereby allowing her to carry families and other civilians? And if so, was she special, or was this par for the course?

I guess what I'm thinking is that these ships might have been able to perform many of the same duties they did in the 23rd century, albeit with less crew and more room for ammenities. So most of the ones we see in the Dominion War are the equivalent of Starfleet birds of prey, with one or two dozen crew aboard.

It's still a bit hard for me to imagine Starfleet building any more Mirandas, even with the new tech and circumstances you've described, after 2350. Maybe even after 2340.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11 2013, 09:04 PM   #55
Nob Akimoto
Captain
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
View Nob Akimoto's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

Well, for comparison's sake, a modern ship the same payload capacity of the Miranda is actually the Sabre, which is a fair bit shorter with a crew complement in the 50ish range. So it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for a Miranda's modern complement to be pretty small, with a greater proportion of civilian specialists and the like than in the 23rd century.

I think the reuse of older designs is mostly an artifact of industrial processes predating industrial replication. Essentially it was easier to make hull frames and outer hulls in a certain shape, and the parts to do that with Miranda or Excelsior parts was comparatively easier than starting over from scratch. This would make more sense, too, if the majority of ships or hulls were built in civilian yards who might not have the latitude in operating costs to switch between "patterns" willy nilly. To some extent I even think some of the wilder ship designs we've seen post-CGI era are basically made that way because the shipyards designing them were recycling hull component shapes that were easy for their replicators or fabricators to make.

So when Starfleet gave away a ton of its own old shipyards/drydocks/fabricators to civilian contractors in favor of building brand new ones, you'd then make some inertia for the smaller contractors to just keep using them and find ways of updating the internals.

In fact, I'm somewhat inclined to argue that's how something like Lakota came about. A proof of concept of modernizing Excelsior hulls and allow reusing of facilities/tools that were used on it. (And Leyton using a smaller, out of the way dockyard owned by a small company would make it easier for him to get away with doing it in secret)

Also, Rick Sternbach in the Klingon Bird of Prey Owner's Manual makes a similar claim that the Klingons only reuse external frames or designs instead of toying with new exteriors because there's not a huge benefit for them. Instead they just build the basic hull, give it their newest engines and then hand them/sell them to the Great Houses to outfit with technology the way they see fit.

I think a similar thing happens with Starfleet ships but in reverse. Contractors build the hulls, then hand them off to Starfleet to fit out with mission gear in big, enormous starbases like Spacedock.
Nob Akimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12 2013, 12:59 AM   #56
Egger
Lieutenant
 
Egger's Avatar
 
Location: Germany
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

I just saw pictures of the NX-02 Columbia under construction and thought it looks more like the "exoskeleton with hull filled with modules approach" you, Nob Akimoto, propose for the TNG-era.

http://www.neutralzone.de/database/P...Columbia02.htm
Egger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12 2013, 01:10 AM   #57
Nob Akimoto
Captain
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
View Nob Akimoto's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

Lalalala I can't hear you!
Nob Akimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12 2013, 01:38 AM   #58
Egger
Lieutenant
 
Egger's Avatar
 
Location: Germany
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

BAD, Enterprise, BAAAD!

Although when I think about it, this design could explain why the Enterprise was decommissioned just 10 years or so after she was launched. And remember the episode "Minefield" where their hull was so badly damaged from that little mine that they said if it would have exploded a bit further left, they would have lost the ship.

Or there was that theory that Zephram Cochrane got the design for the NX-Class from pictures of the Akira somehow. Maybe he wanted a little bit too much too soon. ^^

Although I don't believe in this explanation for the two designs being so similar.
Egger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12 2013, 01:53 AM   #59
Nob Akimoto
Captain
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
View Nob Akimoto's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

The thing is this exterior is kind of belied by the fact that Enterprise ship interiors actually look a bit more like submarine compartments than anything else, and have what appear to be loadbearing structures in the corridors. (The round thingies between each partition, I think are actually loadbearing arches of some sort)

So maybe the pressure hull exterior is built to be extremely robust, but can't actually take much compression stress.
Nob Akimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12 2013, 01:53 AM   #60
Nob Akimoto
Captain
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
View Nob Akimoto's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

New side-bar. Warp nacelle design and field configuration.

Nacelle Design and Field Design
Starship design is always a compromise between competing design goals. In warp propulsion the characteristics in the balance range from cruise endurance, energy efficiency, field density, and coil life. Modern warp nacelle designs generally have a balanced combination of the requisite properties, but ship design also plays a significant part in determining the capabilities of a warp nacelle.

For example, the Nebula and Galaxy class starships share a common warp nacelle in the GN-41, but have substantial differences in their hull, mass, volume configurations and as a consequence significantly different field geometry. Variable field geometry has been a goal of starship designers for the last twenty years as subspace physics are better understood, but a practical in-flight configurable geometry with greater than 10-20% variability in field configuration remains in the realm of speculative fiction and holonovels. The most flexible field dynamics currently exist on ships with variable pylon geometry like the Intrepid class, but even their highly efficient warp systems are incapable of reconfiguring field geometry by more than 25% without substantial replacement of nacelle elements like coils.

Perhaps the greatest trade-off required of modern warp nacelle designers is between integer and decminal warp factor power consumption. Raising the energy efficiency of a nacelle at integer velocities increases its power consumption near peak transition thresholds, while engines optimized for lower power transitions require greater power to sustain an integer speed. The GN-41 series features greater integer efficiency while the LF-42 in the Sovereign is focused upon peak transition efficiency. The ability for a coil to generate a high cochrane field is not as important in modern engine design as its power consumption at a given field strength.

The GN-41H Mod.3 (Galaxy-class 2380 spec) and LF-42B (Vesta-class and Sovereign 2382 spec) each have similar top end performance, theoretically capable of sustaining a field of up to 10,000 cochranes without substantial coil stress. However, the GN-41H's power consumption past Warp 9 increases at a substantially higher rate meaning a ship with that engine can only sustain a maximum speed of Warp 9.9 (3,053 cochranes) for 12 hours compared to a LF-42B equipped ship's Warp 9.99 (7,912 cochranes) for 12 hours with a standard tanker fuel load of 6,000 m and identical output Class XII warp core. At integer velocities, the gap in endurance is reversed, with the GN-41H capable of sustaining Warp 9 (1,512 cochranes) for 3 months compared to the LF-42B's 1 month with the same fuel capacity and warp core configuration.

As a consequence nacelle choice and warp geometry calibration are highly dependent on the needs of a given starship. Long range starships of explorer configuration are equipped with high integer efficient engines, while ships with a greater requirement for rapid deployment have peak transition efficiency boosted engines. A typical Sovereign class starship equipped with a LF-42 series nacelle pair requires nearly three times the fuel stowage compared to a Galaxy to attain similar mission endurance of three years at cruise velocity (warp 8 as of 2381). However, in a crisis situation, the Sovereign is capable of sustaining Warp 9.99 for 36 hours compared to the Galaxy sustaining Warp 9.9 for 12 hours.

In general greater Z-axis compression increases integer warp factor efficiency while peak transition thresholds are easier to cross with a smaller x-y axis profile, helping visual cues identify a starship's emphasis. Some ships like the Intrepid class attempt to combine properties, using high density warp coils and variable pylon geometry to switch from z-axis compressed fields to a narrower warp field to sustain speeds in the Warp 9+ range. In practice this leads to a substantial decrease in coil life, requiring regular refurbishment every 400,000 cochrane-hours due to inconsistent field stress on the coil structures and the greater density of the coil resulting in greater material stress. By contrast the typical coil life of a GN-41 series warp nacelle exceeds 1.2 million cochrane-hours between refurbishment and nearly double that between replacement.

Finally mention must be made of coleoptric warp "nacelle" configurations. Typically used by native Vulcan craft, a small number of Starfleet ship designs utilize this design of nacelle configuration. Coleoptric drives have excellent acceleration and peak transition crossing capabilities at lower warp velocities and have extensive coil lifespans in the order of 2-3 million cochrane-hours. The drives are inefficient at higher warp factors and do not sustain decimal warp velocities well. As a consequence they are most useful for ships that require long endurance at moderate warp factors, low-end acceleration with large mass burdens, or long deployments without coil refurbishment. They are usually found in workhorse civilian designs with a rated output of 350 - 650 cochranes. Currently Starfleet does not operate any mainline starships with coleoptric warp drive configurations.
Credit: Timo Saloniemi on the "GN" series nacelle name.
Nob Akimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:23 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.