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Old October 10 2013, 09:51 PM   #931
R. Star
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Ask and ye shall receive?
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Old October 10 2013, 09:57 PM   #932
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

To be fair on an emotional level i understand janeway wanting tuvok(her best friend) and neelix back but the way she tried to guilt trip tuvix into sacrificing himself annoyed me. I was also surprised not one member of the crew even slightly objected to what was happening.
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Old October 10 2013, 09:58 PM   #933
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

The Doctor did. He stated he couldn't take Tuvix's life against his will. So Janeway did it instead.

I have no problem with her trying to guilt trip him into volunteering at all. Tuvix himself admitted he was a coward for not nobly sacrificing himself for two others, but being a coward is not a capital crime.
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Old October 10 2013, 10:00 PM   #934
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
The Doctor did. He stated he couldn't take Tuvix's life against his will. So Janeway did it instead.
Sorry i meant the living breathing members of the crew not the doctor who i really like but was programmed with his morals.
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Old October 10 2013, 10:30 PM   #935
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
. . .but being a coward is not a capital crime.
Not yet, but some interpretations of so-called "Good Samaritan Laws" may eventually result in it.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:08 PM   #936
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Tuvix is manipulative and desperate.

JANEWAY: Aren't there two other lives to consider here? What about Tuvok and Neelix? Two voices that we can't hear right now. As Captain, I must be their voice, and I believe they would want to live.
TUVIX: But they are living in a way, inside me.

TUVIX: Don't you think that I care about Tuvok and Neelix? Of course I do. Without them, I wouldn't exist. In a way, I think of them as my parents. I feel like I know them intimately.


So he tries to say they are still alive, inside him, and that should be good enough BUT he isn't willing to accept HE will be still alive in them once the transporter accident is rectified.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:49 PM   #937
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Wouldn't you be desperate if it was your life they were casually discussing ending?
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Old October 10 2013, 11:49 PM   #938
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Think of all the Kazon that would have lived if Janeway had just had the good taste to execute Suder.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:51 PM   #939
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Hey! There is continuity there! Janeway didn't wanna punish a murderer because she just knew later on down the road someone would ask her, "So why aren't you getting getting punished like that Suder guy?" Not to mention as clearly demonstrated, having a serial killer in inventory has all kinds of uses.
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Old October 19 2013, 06:17 PM   #940
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

If the TNG crew dealt with this issue, Picard would have made such a grand speech that Tuvix would have volunteered.

Apologies if this was brought up before, but couldn't they have just transported Neelix / Tuvok out of him and then left Tuvix intact - similar to what happened to Tom Riker?

I think the episode is a bit oversimplified by the fact that they needed tuvok / neelix back by the end of it.
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Old October 19 2013, 06:23 PM   #941
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

It was a good call ...
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Old October 19 2013, 07:09 PM   #942
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Makarov wrote: View Post
If the TNG crew dealt with this issue, Picard would have made such a grand speech that Tuvix would have volunteered.

Apologies if this was brought up before, but couldn't they have just transported Neelix / Tuvok out of him and then left Tuvix intact - similar to what happened to Tom Riker?

I think the episode is a bit oversimplified by the fact that they needed tuvok / neelix back by the end of it.
Funny you should you bring up the Riker boys. There would have been arguments that they needed to be integrated because they were both thieves stealing the real Tom Riker's Life... Mean while in Up the Long Ladder and Time Squared, both Riker and Picard murdered their own duplicates so there wouldn't be any confusion about who gets the presents under the Christmas tree later on in the year.

In Parallels Big beard Riker wanted to stay in the new reality he discovered, only to see that his dopplegangers were still fucking petty about sharing Christmas presents, so he was killed rather than risk a half full stocking from Santa.

Oh, and Marakov, it was murder to leave Tuvix intact. Getting her vital crewmen back was hardly as important as stopping on the ongoing murder of her two friends being squashed together inside a cosmic vice... The problem being is that it was murder to separate them as well.
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Old October 19 2013, 09:15 PM   #943
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I consider them dead as soon as the transporter screws up their pattern. They basically don't exist anymore. Actually I think they're dead as soon as they get beamed anywhere in the first place, but that's another discussion.
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Old October 19 2013, 09:22 PM   #944
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I would have make a Thomas Riker clone of Tuvix, separated the original, and gotten all three at once for diversities sake
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Old October 19 2013, 09:26 PM   #945
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Makarov wrote: View Post
I consider them dead as soon as the transporter screws up their pattern. They basically don't exist anymore. Actually I think they're dead as soon as they get beamed anywhere in the first place, but that's another discussion.
But in that TNG Transportaphobia episode of Barclay's we see that people remain conscious during transport, so even though your brain is being pulled apart, your mind stays intact.

publiusr wrote: View Post
I would have make a Thomas Riker clone of Tuvix, separated the original, and gotten all three at once for diversities sake
So Tuvok and Neelix have to contemptuously look at them selves being mashed and murdered inside the prick who's thinking about killing them again/more to get their women?

Meanwhile, you can't guarantee the ratios, and you'd most likely end up with two Tuvixs or Neevoks.
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