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Old October 10 2013, 06:51 PM   #46
TheMasterOfOrion
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Re: Babylon 5: Reconciling "The Gathering" with the series

Gotham Central wrote: View Post

One also wonders how Dr. Kyle was even able to work on Kosh since its a foregone conclusion that he does not have ordinary biology.

some magic cure juice, every show needs their plot devices
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Old October 10 2013, 07:33 PM   #47
Lindley
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Re: Babylon 5: Reconciling "The Gathering" with the series

Reverend wrote: View Post
The Dilgar all died when their homeworld's sun went nova, presumably after the EA chased them back out of League space.
Suns don't just "go nova".....unless someone interferes with them, of course. It's an interesting supposition considering what the Vorlons did later.

Also, there's ZERO evidence that the immortality serum was Shadow tech.
True, but that's also....a very interesting supposition.
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Old October 10 2013, 07:58 PM   #48
Reverend
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Re: Babylon 5: Reconciling "The Gathering" with the series

Lindley wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
The Dilgar all died when their homeworld's sun went nova, presumably after the EA chased them back out of League space.
Suns don't just "go nova".....unless someone interferes with them, of course. It's an interesting supposition considering what the Vorlons did later.
Sure they do, it happens all the time. At the rate of about 30 or 40 a year in this galaxy alone, if memory serves. It happens in binary systems when a white dwarf accretes hydrogen on it's surface, which ignites in a runaway fusion reaction throwing off a blast wave of stellar matter and radiation. It doesn't destroy the star like say a supernova (totally different thing, but also totally naturally occurring) but it's still very bad news for any habitable planets that may be orbiting it.

Indeed, orbiting a star you know is probably going to go nova *soon* is about as good an explanation as any for why the Dilgar suddenly decided to invade the Non-Aligned Worlds. The alternatives being death and having their species becoming a race of refugees forced to either depend on the charity of the other races, or start over from scratch on some uninhabited world.

They apparently chose to build a new empire and rule over the conquered worlds while their homeworld died. It might have worked too since the only major races that could have stopped them (the Minbari, Centauri, Narn & Vorlons) didn't care. Clearly the gambit backfired.

Also, there's ZERO evidence that the immortality serum was Shadow tech.
True, but that's also....a very interesting supposition.
Not so much IMO. As I said I think it's a better story if the Dilgar came up with it on their own and it makes no sense for the Shadows to give it to them. It runs totally contrary to their ideology and their agenda isn't served by having half the younger races wiped out, leaving the surviving half to live forever, dominating any other race that tries to evolve.

It'd doom the galaxy to stagnation and both the Shadows and the Vorlon would likely be forced to just wipe the slate clean with them and start over in another thousand years.
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Old October 10 2013, 08:21 PM   #49
Lindley
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Re: Babylon 5: Reconciling "The Gathering" with the series

Reverend wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
The Dilgar all died when their homeworld's sun went nova, presumably after the EA chased them back out of League space.
Suns don't just "go nova".....unless someone interferes with them, of course. It's an interesting supposition considering what the Vorlons did later.
Sure they do, it happens all the time.
You misunderstand. I meant they would know it was coming a lot sooner than three years before it happened. The timeline doesn't add up.

Also, there's ZERO evidence that the immortality serum was Shadow tech.
True, but that's also....a very interesting supposition.
Not so much IMO. As I said I think it's a better story if the Dilgar came up with it on their own and it makes no sense for the Shadows to give it to them. It runs totally contrary to their ideology and their agenda isn't served by having half the younger races wiped out, leaving the surviving half to live forever, dominating any other race that tries to evolve.

It'd doom the galaxy to stagnation and both the Shadows and the Vorlon would likely be forced to just wipe the slate clean with them and start over in another thousand years.
You're assuming the serum worked as advertised. We don't really know that, all we know is it extended Deathwalker's life somewhat. And as we saw, its purported properties could make it an exceptional agent of chaos. I could see it as a Shadow tool.
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Old October 10 2013, 09:01 PM   #50
Reverend
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Re: Babylon 5: Reconciling "The Gathering" with the series

Lindley wrote: View Post
You misunderstand. I meant they would know it was coming a lot sooner than three years before it happened. The timeline doesn't add up.
Would they though? We've been studying our own star for thousands of years and it's only in the last few decades that we've really stared to grasp how the thing works and what it's doing.

Now I'm not certain how long it takes for a binary system to reach critical mass, but given that the Dilgar homeworld was able to evolve life at all it seems likely that this is the first time it'd ever happened. They'd have no point of comparison. Those two stars are the only ones they'd ever known and they may not have realized what was happening until relativity recently.

Really though, we have no idea *when* they discovered their planet was doomed. For all we know they could have figured it out only a few decades ago or a few centuries. Maybe it just took them that long to get to the point where they felt confident they could take on the other minor races and survive. Indeed, I'd put money on the truth being a closely guarded state secret and anyone trying to raise the alarm would have been quickly silenced. Indeed, the best evidence for this is that their surviving forces (assuming there were any) went back to their home system after the invasion failed. The only one who didn't return home was the invasion's supreme commander, who would logically be the only person in the know besides their ruler(s).

I suppose the logical question would be why the leaders didn't attempt an evacuation like Earth did before the Battle of the Line? Maybe they did, but then again maybe Earthforce blew up their jumpgate, stranding them in their home system at relativistic speeds and unable to outrun the blast wave. On the other hand maybe their calculations were off and they didn't think the star would blow for another century.

You're assuming the serum worked as advertised. We don't really know that, all we know is it extended Deathwalker's life somewhat. And as we saw, its purported properties could make it an exceptional agent of chaos. I could see it as a Shadow tool.
In the short term, sure. But as I said, in the long run it'd lead to a stagnant state of affairs and therefore not something either the Shadows or the Vorlons would want. Remember that the Shadows don't believe in chaos for the sake of chaos. They believe in chaos as THE driving force of evolution. The scenario Jha'dur described was quite the opposite: an evolutionary dead end.

As for whether of not it worked the way she said; the initial tests came back positive and clearly the Vorlons were convinced enough to openly off her. Really, we have no reason to believe otherwise.

Last edited by Reverend; October 10 2013 at 09:24 PM.
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Old October 10 2013, 09:48 PM   #51
Lindley
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Re: Babylon 5: Reconciling "The Gathering" with the series

Reverend wrote: View Post
As for whether of not it worked the way she said; the initial tests came back positive and clearly the Vorlons were convinced enough to openly off her. Really, we have no reason to believe otherwise.
The initial tests on miracle drugs always come back positive. 40 minutes later, they discover some cataclysmic flaw that prevents them from being used. It's just how medicine works in the future!
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Old October 10 2013, 10:09 PM   #52
Reverend
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Re: Babylon 5: Reconciling "The Gathering" with the series

Lindley wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
As for whether of not it worked the way she said; the initial tests came back positive and clearly the Vorlons were convinced enough to openly off her. Really, we have no reason to believe otherwise.
The initial tests on miracle drugs always come back positive. 40 minutes later, they discover some cataclysmic flaw that prevents them from being used. It's just how medicine works in the future!
I'm pretty sure if the Vorlons are convinced, there's really no arguing the point.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:11 PM   #53
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Re: Babylon 5: Reconciling "The Gathering" with the series

Once the avalanche starts , it's too late for the pebbles to vote.
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