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Old October 8 2013, 07:10 PM   #76
C.E. Evans
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Re: Starfleeters?

Yeah, it was. Peace.
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Old October 9 2013, 02:12 AM   #77
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Re: Starfleeters?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
At various times a ship's compliment is mentioned it's usually followed by the word officers. EG the Enterprise D has 1000 officers, Defiant has 40 officers, Voyager 150 officers and so on.
Not quite...the 1000 people on the Ent-D included the families...I doubt that they were ever referred to as "officers".
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Old October 10 2013, 05:23 AM   #78
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Re: Starfleeters?

You do realize that Gene Roddenberry was both a naval veteran and a police officer? It is no coincidence the show's terminology reflected aspects of both organizations.

No matter the rank, ALL are "police officers". Our chief of police was a sworn police officer, as were all of us in the department.

Naval officers are NOT the same as enlisted personnel. No self-respecting naval person would allow you to confuse them with the other ones. The only difference is that enlisted sailors will call you out more vehemently than officers.
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Old October 10 2013, 05:30 AM   #79
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Re: Starfleeters?

Sector 7 wrote: View Post
You do realize that Gene Roddenberry was both a naval veteran and a police officer? It is no coincidence the show's terminology reflected aspects of both organizations.

No matter the rank, ALL are "police officers". Our chief of police was a sworn police officer, as were all of us in the department.

Naval officers are NOT the same as enlisted personnel. No self-respecting naval person would allow you to confuse them with the other ones. The only difference is that enlisted sailors will call you out more vehemently than officers.
Gene was in the US Army Air Corps/Forces.
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Old October 10 2013, 07:19 AM   #80
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Re: Starfleeters?

Sector 7 wrote: View Post

Naval officers are NOT the same as enlisted personnel. No self-respecting naval person would allow you to confuse them with the other ones. The only difference is that enlisted sailors will call you out more vehemently than officers.
My uncle was a career CPO in the navy... most calm, collected and disciplined man I ever met in my life. The only time I ever saw him get angry was when I was 9 and asked him if he wanted to be an officer so he could get paid more.

I didn't get it at the time for some reason and was just proud that I had memorize military ranks in a book I had read.
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Old October 10 2013, 02:04 PM   #81
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Re: Starfleeters?

Starfleet Officer, Starfleet is made up of Commissioned and Non-Commissioned Officers. In some of the shows, mainly Voyager and Enterprise, they labelled the generic characters as Crewmen (even when some of them have rank)

Its the military today who get hung up between Officer and NCO(fficer) ranks and who gets called an Officer.
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Old October 10 2013, 05:14 PM   #82
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Re: Starfleeters?

starburst wrote: View Post
Starfleet Officer, Starfleet is made up of Commissioned and Non-Commissioned Officers. In some of the shows, mainly Voyager and Enterprise, they labelled the generic characters as Crewmen (even when some of them have rank)

Its the military today who get hung up between Officer and NCO(fficer) ranks and who gets called an Officer.
All enlisted personnel are not called NCO's. An NCO is an enlisted person that achives the E-4 grade in the Navy and E-5 grade in the Army. Enlisted personnel below that are not NCO's. That is probably why "crewman" in Starfleet is most likely similar to "seamen" in the Navy or "Private" in the Army.

That is why I disagree with the term "officers" as a catch all. That and most enlisted personnel hate to be mistaken for officers.
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Old October 10 2013, 05:21 PM   #83
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Re: Starfleeters?

starburst wrote: View Post
Starfleet Officer, Starfleet is made up of Commissioned and Non-Commissioned Officers. In some of the shows, mainly Voyager and Enterprise, they labelled the generic characters as Crewmen (even when some of them have rank)

Its the military today who get hung up between Officer and NCO(fficer) ranks and who gets called an Officer.
It's seems to be exactly this. Although they are similar, they're ultimately different services with different terms and values.
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Old October 10 2013, 05:52 PM   #84
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Re: Starfleeters?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
That is why I disagree with the term "officers" as a catch all. That and most enlisted personnel hate to be mistaken for officers.
How many Starfleet members do you personally know? Have you asked them?
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Old October 10 2013, 06:10 PM   #85
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Re: Starfleeters?

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
That is why I disagree with the term "officers" as a catch all. That and most enlisted personnel hate to be mistaken for officers.
How many Starfleet members do you personally know? Have you asked them?
HA!
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Old October 10 2013, 06:53 PM   #86
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Re: Starfleeters?

There are plenty at any convention... but all of them are officers.... captains usually.
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Old October 11 2013, 01:39 PM   #87
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Re: Starfleeters?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
starburst wrote: View Post
Starfleet Officer, Starfleet is made up of Commissioned and Non-Commissioned Officers. In some of the shows, mainly Voyager and Enterprise, they labelled the generic characters as Crewmen (even when some of them have rank)

Its the military today who get hung up between Officer and NCO(fficer) ranks and who gets called an Officer.
All enlisted personnel are not called NCO's. An NCO is an enlisted person that achives the E-4 grade in the Navy and E-5 grade in the Army. Enlisted personnel below that are not NCO's. That is probably why "crewman" in Starfleet is most likely similar to "seamen" in the Navy or "Private" in the Army.

That is why I disagree with the term "officers" as a catch all. That and most enlisted personnel hate to be mistaken for officers.
All true, but in the Army an E-4 can be an NCO if he/she is a Corporal. Yes it is a lateral promotion and the pay grade is the same, but he/she does wear stripes and is referred to as an NCO.
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Old October 11 2013, 01:44 PM   #88
Use of Time
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Re: Starfleeters?

Sigokat wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
starburst wrote: View Post
Starfleet Officer, Starfleet is made up of Commissioned and Non-Commissioned Officers. In some of the shows, mainly Voyager and Enterprise, they labelled the generic characters as Crewmen (even when some of them have rank)

Its the military today who get hung up between Officer and NCO(fficer) ranks and who gets called an Officer.
All enlisted personnel are not called NCO's. An NCO is an enlisted person that achives the E-4 grade in the Navy and E-5 grade in the Army. Enlisted personnel below that are not NCO's. That is probably why "crewman" in Starfleet is most likely similar to "seamen" in the Navy or "Private" in the Army.

That is why I disagree with the term "officers" as a catch all. That and most enlisted personnel hate to be mistaken for officers.
All true, but in the Army an E-4 can be an NCO if he/she is a Corporal. Yes it is a lateral promotion and the pay grade is the same, but he/she does wear stripes and is referred to as an NCO.
Yep, forgot about the CPL. I rarely encountered them during my tenure but yes they are very much NCO's.
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Old October 11 2013, 01:53 PM   #89
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Re: Starfleeters?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Sigokat wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post

All enlisted personnel are not called NCO's. An NCO is an enlisted person that achives the E-4 grade in the Navy and E-5 grade in the Army. Enlisted personnel below that are not NCO's. That is probably why "crewman" in Starfleet is most likely similar to "seamen" in the Navy or "Private" in the Army.

That is why I disagree with the term "officers" as a catch all. That and most enlisted personnel hate to be mistaken for officers.
All true, but in the Army an E-4 can be an NCO if he/she is a Corporal. Yes it is a lateral promotion and the pay grade is the same, but he/she does wear stripes and is referred to as an NCO.
Yep, forgot about the CPL. I rarely encountered them during my tenure but yes they are very much NCO's.
Yeah it all depends on if the unit has CPL billets. I see them every once in a while and I used to think CPL was reserved for combat arms MOSs, but I have seen a few 42A CPLs and I think even a Supply one once.
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Old October 11 2013, 02:49 PM   #90
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Re: Starfleeters?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Plenty. At various times a ship's compliment is mentioned it's usually followed by the word officers. EG the Enterprise D has 1000 officers, Defiant has 40 officers, Voyager 150 officers and so on.
OK, thanks. Any specific episodes?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I find the term "Starfleet Officers" as a catch all for everyone to be unecessarilly redundant, misleading and possibly disrespectful to the enlisted pesonnel.
It does raise the question of why the same word would be used in two different ways, one that includes everyone and one that does not. But like a lot of issues dealing with Starfleet enlisted personnel, they made it up as they went along so there are bound to be inconsistencies.

starburst wrote: View Post
Starfleet Officer, Starfleet is made up of Commissioned and Non-Commissioned Officers. In some of the shows, mainly Voyager and Enterprise, they labelled the generic characters as Crewmen (even when some of them have rank)
I don't think we can assume all enlisted personnel are non-commissioned or petty officers, which has historically meant a position of some technical and/or leadership experience. And "crewman" is apparently a rank or class of rank: "crewman first class" is used in "The Drumhead."
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