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Old October 10 2013, 01:50 AM   #31
C.E. Evans
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

Gov Karnstein wrote: View Post
Closed Caption wrote: View Post
I saw Blade Runner opening weekend.

My problem with assuming that Deckard is a replicant is that it undermines what I see as the thematic structure of the film. The following is true for all the retirements in the film, but, as one of the film's emotional high points, Zhora's death especially has impact precisely because we are made to wonder just what it is that differentiates her death from a human's. If Deckard is a human behaving like a replicant in the midst of replicants behaving like humans, then that highlights the question of human versus replicant, by offering us some contrast for comparison. If Deckard's a replicant, where's the contrast? There is no lesson for Roy to teach Deckard in valuing the life of a replicant, if Deckard is already a replicant.
I recall, though I don't have any link, that Ford didn't like thi idea of Deckard being a replicant. I would expect for many of the same thoughts you have here. His being a replicant works for me because I find Deckard learning to feel for people through Rachel and Roy equally compelling.
I feel the same way. I've heard rumblings about Deckard being a replicant, but I just never got that sense in all the times I've seen the movie. There's a lot of surreal imagery in Blade Runner, but to me, the movie just seems to work best if the replicants are actually more human than Deckard is, IMO.
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Old October 10 2013, 02:52 AM   #32
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

I find the beauty of the ending and the nobility of Deckerd recognizing the humanity in Rachael is severely undercut if Deckerd is just saving his own replicant ass and taking her along.
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Old October 10 2013, 03:45 AM   #33
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

I do love that the "truth" of Blade Runner is up to each viewer. I've never really bought into Deckard being a replicant though. Something about it just doesn't sit right for me. Is he Nexus 6? And if so, why does he get his ass handed to him so soundly? And if not, why send an obviously inferior specimen to take down replicants anyway? Send a better one. Or send more than one human. Did they set up his whole life just to make him think he's a human instead of sending some other Blade Runner? To what end? What point is there to such an elaborate ruse?

For me, "Deckard = Replicant?" is just another of those half-thought out 'What If?' ideas that are littered throughout the film. Is the population of L.A. overcrowded or sparse? If Roy has "placement" tattoos on his body for plug-ins and what-not, why would you need a voight-kampff to detect a replicant? If replicants eyes glow under the right conditions, why can't that be used as a means of detection? And if the glow can't be proven to be a replicant trait, it means nothing that Deckards eyes glow in one scene. Gaff leaves a unicorn, showing that he was at Deckard's home and let Rachael live. If it means more, Deckard sure doesn't seem worried by the implication that his whole existence is not what he thought.

Oh yeah, a Blade Runner sequel...I nearly forgot.

Sure, bring it on. If it sucks, it doesn't damage anything. ALIEN is still every bit as good as it ever was, despite Prometheus. Raiders, Empire, and The Terminator are all still awesome...et cetera.
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Old October 10 2013, 04:15 AM   #34
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

Tosk wrote: View Post
I do love that the "truth" of Blade Runner is up to each viewer. I've never really bought into Deckard being a replicant though. Something about it just doesn't sit right for me. Is he Nexus 6? And if so, why does he get his ass handed to him so soundly? And if not, why send an obviously inferior specimen to take down replicants anyway? Send a better one. Or send more than one human. Did they set up his whole life just to make him think he's a human instead of sending some other Blade Runner? To what end? What point is there to such an elaborate ruse?

For me, "Deckard = Replicant?" is just another of those half-thought out 'What If?' ideas that are littered throughout the film. Is the population of L.A. overcrowded or sparse? If Roy has "placement" tattoos on his body for plug-ins and what-not, why would you need a voight-kampff to detect a replicant? If replicants eyes glow under the right conditions, why can't that be used as a means of detection? And if the glow can't be proven to be a replicant trait, it means nothing that Deckards eyes glow in one scene. Gaff leaves a unicorn, showing that he was at Deckard's home and let Rachael live. If it means more, Deckard sure doesn't seem worried by the implication that his whole existence is not what he thought.

Oh yeah, a Blade Runner sequel...I nearly forgot.

Sure, bring it on. If it sucks, it doesn't damage anything. ALIEN is still every bit as good as it ever was, despite Prometheus. Raiders, Empire, and The Terminator are all still awesome...et cetera.
I could see Tyrel Corp looking to deal with the dying human race. Deckard and Rachel are an experiment to see if more ordinary human level replicants and their progeny would be resistant to the polutants in the environment that are breaking down the human genome and creating genetic defects. Tyrel isn't interested in Deckard fighting replicants, but in creating people capable of flourishing in the hostile environment Earth has become.

I could see a sequel using more of the book's background of the human race dying out on Earth, and taking up the possibility that Deckard was one of the escaped replicants from the first movie re-adjusted by the Tyrel Corp. That thought based on Roy's knowledge of experiment by the Corp which seemed a bit more than one might expect in a soldier/slave, the changing number of replicants in the script, and Roy recognizing Deckard when they'd never met.

The whole thing could just suck like Highlander 2, so like you said, that wouldn't change a thing about the first film.
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Old October 10 2013, 06:18 AM   #35
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

The replicants could turn on the humans and hunt them across the stars.... hmmm, seems familiar.
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Old October 10 2013, 10:33 AM   #36
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

I suppose it's happened before.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:11 AM   #37
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

JarodRussell wrote: View Post

What is left unanswered in Blade Runner that needs to be dealt with in a sequel?
Sequels don't necessarily have to deal with unresolved issues from previous films at all.

I'm sure an imaginative writer could come up any number of good stories to tell within the Blade Runner universe, the fact that you can't doesn't mean it can't be done.

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Unless you're Uwe Boll, there's no hope for him.
To my shame I must say I quite enjoyed some film of his I saw, where a guy dons a load of combat gear and goes on a killing spree. Although it was horribly exploitative, it was actually surprisingly competently filmed and performed, certainly compared to the few other films of his I have seen which were pure unmitigated garbage.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:42 AM   #38
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

Gov Karnstein wrote: View Post
One of the last versions released had him dreaming about a unicorn which matches up with the origami unicorn in the elevator left behind by Gaf when he and Rachel are leaving. It begs the question how the two images are related. Some would say it shows Gaf is aware of Deckard's dreams which could mean they are implanted memories. However, I don't think it was ever made explicit that D was a replicant. Assuming Deckard is a replicant, Gaf could be observing Deckard to make sure he functions as a proper Blade Runner.
I definitely don't want a "Blade Runner" sequel because Ridley Scott will most likely continue his Deckard = replicant interpretation.

The screenplay writer vehemently disagreed with Scott's decision to retroactively insert that unicorn sequence (or "Legend" trailer) because it had not been intended to provide the interpretation that came out of it.

We could argue who actually does "own" a story. The screenplay writer or the director of the film?

Gaf's origamis were subtle comments on the situations of the film. Deckard was cowardous (chicken origami), a voyeur when going through other people's stuff (Peeping Tom origami) and the unicorn origami was merely a gesture of Gaf understanding what Deckard was looking for (to my knowledge the unicorn is a mythological symbol for the quest of achieving bliss, harmony and peace - which is obviously what the Deckard character needed most).

But Scott apparently had to trivialize these clever situation comments. What does the chicken origami tell us now? That Deckard wanted to leave the police station because he was dying to eat some KFC and Gaf knew?

Ridley Scott can continue to walk in George Lucas' footsteps. I don't care. I'm happy and content that unlike GL he gave people like me at least the opportunity to continue watching the theatrical edition of "Blade Runner".

Bob
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Old October 10 2013, 11:57 AM   #39
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

My biggest problem with the "unicorn means Deckard is replicant" idea is that (according to one "clue") somehow Gaff knew exactly which thought to reference with his origami. Deckard talks earlier with Rachael about her memories of being young. She starts a story and he finishes it, knowing how the false memory goes. But Deckard daydreams at the piano (unless it really is a memory and unicorns exist in the BR universe) and Gaff even knows about that errant thought? Nah.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I definitely don't want a "Blade Runner" sequel because Ridley Scott will most likely continue his Deckard = replicant interpretation.
Worse than that even, is Ridley's "Alien and Blade Runner exist in the same universe" thing. I don't mind a little tongue-in-cheek sharing between them, but I'd rather not find out that Weyland bought out Tyrell.
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Old October 10 2013, 03:57 PM   #40
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

Gov Karnstein wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
The replicants could turn on the humans and hunt them across the stars.... hmmm, seems familiar.
I suppose it's happened before.
It will probably happen again.
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Old October 10 2013, 04:36 PM   #41
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

So weird, for years I was like the only guy who thought being human was better than the replicant reveal. I don't mind people feeling otherwise but I felt like the lone voice in the wilderness, where were you guys? .
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Old October 10 2013, 06:46 PM   #42
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

We were always here, but like tears lost in rain.
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Old October 10 2013, 07:09 PM   #43
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Gov Karnstein wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
The replicants could turn on the humans and hunt them across the stars.... hmmm, seems familiar.
I suppose it's happened before.
It will probably happen again.
If you believe EJO it's a linear progression.
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Old October 11 2013, 12:42 AM   #44
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

Tosk wrote: View Post
My biggest problem with the "unicorn means Deckard is replicant" idea is that (according to one "clue") somehow Gaff knew exactly which thought to reference with his origami. Deckard talks earlier with Rachael about her memories of being young. She starts a story and he finishes it, knowing how the false memory goes. But Deckard daydreams at the piano (unless it really is a memory and unicorns exist in the BR universe) and Gaff even knows about that errant thought? Nah.
On a certain level, what's the difference? It wouldn't be a real memory, it would be equivalent to a false memory. It stands to reason that if they can implant false memories such as the one described by Rachael and Deckard, they can implant unicorns.

Gov Karnstein wrote: View Post
No.
No to what? Batty & co. not being able to have their lifespans "undone"? Because that was pretty clearly presented in the film. It's not like a switch you can flip or something. On the other hand, if Deckard is a replicant who survives to Ford's current age, we would assume him to not have had the short lifespan in the first place.
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Old October 11 2013, 03:35 AM   #45
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Re: Harrison Ford confirms Blade Runner 2 discussions

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
My biggest problem with the "unicorn means Deckard is replicant" idea is that (according to one "clue") somehow Gaff knew exactly which thought to reference with his origami. Deckard talks earlier with Rachael about her memories of being young. She starts a story and he finishes it, knowing how the false memory goes. But Deckard daydreams at the piano (unless it really is a memory and unicorns exist in the BR universe) and Gaff even knows about that errant thought? Nah.
On a certain level, what's the difference? It wouldn't be a real memory, it would be equivalent to a false memory. It stands to reason that if they can implant false memories such as the one described by Rachael and Deckard, they can implant unicorns.
What I mean is, it's clearly not a memory in any way unless unicorns are real, so (if taken as proof that Deckard is a replicant) it implies that Tyrell Corp. not only implanted memories into Rachael and Deckard but potentially every little passing thought that runs through their mind on a daily basis. Which would make them (in my mind) even less human than the other Nexus 6 replicants.

I prefer to see the unicorn in a less prosaic light. That Deckard daydreams of a unicorn, and when later Gaff leaves a piece of origami to tell Deckard that he has been there, rather than it throwing Deckard's whole worldview into question, he sees it as one of life's wonderful little funny coincidences.

But as I say, the real beauty of it all is that there is no true answer. The director says one thing, the actor and writer say another, the audience get to decide for themselves. Some resolve to watch it again this weekend for the umpteenth time.
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