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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

View Poll Results: Toughest Star Trek Species
Tin Man 0 0%
The Douwd 6 18.75%
The Kelvan 0 0%
The Prophets/Wormhole Aliens 4 12.50%
The Pah-wraiths 0 0%
Species 8472 4 12.50%
The Borg 1 3.13%
The Hirogen 2 6.25%
Remans 1 3.13%
Caretakers 0 0%
Founders 5 15.63%
Humans 9 28.13%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 9 2013, 04:57 PM   #31
bbjeg
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
The douwd.
One has no problem surviving the nuclear annihilation of his home colony. He has no problem single-handedly eliminating an entire highly aggressive species. He has no weaknesses, as far as we can tell...
And what would happen if 8472 blew apart their planet or used their high-range telepathic ability against them?
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Old October 9 2013, 05:56 PM   #32
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Big Boo wrote: View Post

And what would happen if 8472 blew apart their planet or used their high-range telepathic ability against them?
What if the Federation time-traveled to the 100th century and brought back super-duper-super technology?

This is why discussions like this make no sense beyond whichever species a writer needs to be the toughest in a given episode.
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Old October 9 2013, 11:10 PM   #33
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

^It's more like "Of the strengths shown", who do you think was the strongest.
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Old October 10 2013, 01:36 AM   #34
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Romulans.
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Old October 10 2013, 04:59 AM   #35
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Humans - Most resiliant and have gone up against all of the above. Despite not being godlike, technically/genetically enhanced, or physically stronger (like the Hirogen), humans never seem to back down when they think they are in the right or have something to defend. Toughness isn't about bullying people with your superior power, it is about how you react when you are pushed beyond your limits.
This was my reply, as well. I cannot improve upon your assessment.
Big Boo wrote: View Post
^It's more like "Of the strengths shown", who do you think was the strongest.
I still vote for Humans, for the above stated reasons.
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Old October 11 2013, 10:19 AM   #36
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

How are the Jem'Hadar not listed? That was the first species that came to mind when I saw the title of the thread. That's how you properly introduce a tough new species (I'm looking at you, Kazon). I'd only count out the Jem'Hadar when they're either out ketracel-white or if they're a mix of Gammas and Alphas.
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Old October 11 2013, 11:34 AM   #37
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Big Boo wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
The douwd.
One has no problem surviving the nuclear annihilation of his home colony. He has no problem single-handedly eliminating an entire highly aggressive species. He has no weaknesses, as far as we can tell...
And what would happen if 8472 blew apart their planet or used their high-range telepathic ability against them?
1 The douwd are all on one planet? You could mean ~What would happen to one douwd if 8472 blow up the planet he is on? The answer - absolutely nothing.
Energy being with immense power who survived nuclear annihilation without even trying, remember.

2 8472 telepathy against douwd? When 8472's telepathy does not even work against humans? Again, the answer is absolutely nothing.


As said, 8472 - and all the other light-weights listed in the poll - are absolutely pathetic when compared to the douwd or the prophets when it comes to toughness AKA resistance to injury&ability to bitch-slap.
A species looking cool does NOT equal toughness.

Also, humanity - tough? Adaptable, yes. Hard to kill all of humanity - yes; much like cockroaches are hard to kill.
Tough?
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Old October 11 2013, 11:57 AM   #38
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

I voted The Founders (Jem'Hadar/Breen)

Romulans should be on the list to be honest...
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Old October 11 2013, 12:00 PM   #39
Use of Time
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Big Boo wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
The douwd.
One has no problem surviving the nuclear annihilation of his home colony. He has no problem single-handedly eliminating an entire highly aggressive species. He has no weaknesses, as far as we can tell...
And what would happen if 8472 blew apart their planet or used their high-range telepathic ability against them?
1 The douwd are all on one planet? You could mean ~What would happen to one douwd if 8472 blow up the planet he is on? The answer - absolutely nothing.
Energy being with immense power who survived nuclear annihilation without even trying, remember.

2 8472 telepathy against douwd? When 8472's telepathy does not even work against humans? Again, the answer is absolutely nothing.


As said, 8472 - and all the other light-weights listed in the poll - are absolutely pathetic when compared to the douwd or the prophets when it comes to toughness AKA resistance to injury&ability to bitch-slap.
A species looking cool does NOT equal toughness.

Also, humanity - tough? Adaptable, yes. Hard to kill all of humanity - yes; much like cockroaches are hard to kill.
Tough?
Why wouldn't they be? Again, I think you confuse with power with toughness. Like your cockroach analogy, does stepping on a cockroach make me tough? Not really. Snapping your fingers like Q or simply thinking a species out of existance like the dowd doesn't require toughness, just might.
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Old October 11 2013, 12:05 PM   #40
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Use of Time

The concept of toughness:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Toughness
Meaning, toughness is, grosso modo, resistance to injury&ability to bitch-slap.
Another meaning is being a thug (which was not the meaning intended here).

And YES, being invulnerable to everything and able to snuff out a species by snapping one's fingers IS toughness. At least by comparison to the snuffed out species.
Snuffing out a cockroack so easily makes you a LOT tougher than the cockroack.
Contrary to the perception in this thread, the concept is far larger than the hollywood image of two alpha males looking cool and trading punches.
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Old October 11 2013, 12:16 PM   #41
Use of Time
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Use of Time

The concept of toughness:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Toughness
Meaning, toughness is, grosso modo, resistance to injury&ability to bitch-slap.
Another meaning is being a thug (which was not the meaning intended here).

And YES, being invulnerable to everything and able to snuff out a species by snapping one's fingers IS toughness. At least by comparison to the snuffed out species.
Snuffing out a cockroack so easily makes you a LOT tougher than the cockroack.
Contrary to the perception in this thread, the concept is far larger than the hollywood image of two alpha males looking cool and trading punches.
Tough - adjective
1. strong and durable; not easily broken or cut.
2. not brittle or tender.
3. difficult to masticate, as food.
4. of viscous consistency, as liquid or semiliquid matter: tough molasses.
5. capable of great endurance; sturdy; hardy.

I suppose I'm thinking more of number 5 when I think of humans being tough. They haven't backed down from any of the specied listed above despite being woefully mismatched at times and have even managed to come out on top at times despite the opposition. This is far more impressive than say some single minded drugged up Jem H'dar.
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Old October 11 2013, 12:24 PM   #42
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Humans have the sturdiness/hardyness of cockroaches. An individual human or an individual human ship is easily bitch-slapped. It's just that the humans keep coming over the corpses of their dead, and they keep adapting to the pesticides used against them.

This is NOT toughness. Toughness requires for the individual human or ship to be hard to bitch-slap, to be able to take a lot of damage before succumbing.
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Old October 11 2013, 12:32 PM   #43
Use of Time
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Humans have the sturdiness/hardyness of cockroaches. An individual human or an individual human ship is easily bitch-slapped. It's just that the humans keep coming, and they keep adapting to the pesticides used against them.

This is NOT toughness. Toughness requires for the individual human or ship to be hard to bitch-slap, to be able to take a lot of damage before succumbing.
I'm not even sure you read the definition of the word when you posted it to me.

5. capable of great endurance; sturdy; hardy.

Humans do not have the sturdiness/hardyness of cockroaches. They have the studiness/hardyness of humans because you know...their humans.

You also say that "Toughness requires for the individual human or ship to be hard to bitch-slap (a term you seem to really enjoy), to be able to take a lot of damage before succumbing." Sounds like humans to me.
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Old October 11 2013, 12:40 PM   #44
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

Use of Time
I'm not even sure you read the definition of the word when you posted it to me.
Really?
First, don't think I haven't noticed how you did not take the definition for toughness from my link, but from somewhere else in order to take a few words out of context, to try and give them a meaning they do not have.

Second, trekverse 'humans have the sturdiness/hardyness of cockroaches' is a comparison. A quite adequate one, too. That you have trouble stomaching it is irrelevant.

Third, humans are easily killed by almost everyone of note and his idiot cousin in the trekverse. Not even close to being able to take a lot of damage before succumbing.
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Last edited by Edit_XYZ; October 11 2013 at 12:51 PM.
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Old October 11 2013, 12:52 PM   #45
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Re: Toughest Star Trek Species

No votes for the Borg? That's tough.
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