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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old October 9 2013, 05:50 AM   #151
Timewalker
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
I would not expect to see an uptight jackass like Quinto portrayed in the 2009 movie. I would not expect to see Spock and Uhura smooching and getting emotional all over each other, since TOS Spock and Uhura have a more dignified kind of friendship and professional relationship.
Mmmmm. How did you ever handle the "Mirror, Mirror" episode of TOS, and its sequels in DS9 and prequel in ENT? And the novels "TNG: Dark Mirror" and "Dark Passions". And the alternate universes of TNG's "Parallels"?
Spock and Uhura were not engaging in PDA in "Mirror, Mirror." Uhura did flirt with Mirror-Sulu for a few seconds, but only to make sure he wouldn't notice what Scotty was up to. I have vague recollections that Deanna was evil in the TNG novels, and thought it was an interesting alternative take on Betazoid abilities. But those stories never claimed to be any sort of "TNG reboot". "Parallels"... where Worf kept changing universes? I don't like Worf in any universe. I'm not overly fond of Deanna either. And I remember reading about the Mirror version of ENT, but never saw any episodes on TV. There are at least 2 seasons' worth of that show I never watched.

KRAD wrote: View Post
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I would not expect to see Spock and Uhura smooching and getting emotional all over each other, since TOS Spock and Uhura have a more dignified kind of friendship and professional relationship.
You need to watch "Charlie X" again. Specifically the mess-hall scene where Uhura sings. Orci and Kurtzman did a great deal of rectal yanking, but the Spock-Uhura relationship is not one of the things they pulled out of their asses.
I've seen Charlie X quite enough times, thank you. There are a couple of really horrible scenes in that episode that have put it firmly on my "Never Watching This Ever Again Because It's Enough To Give Me Nightmares" list. Uhura was flirting with Spock, and he was in the mood to play along (both literally and in the sense of camaraderie - or maybe it was just that Leonard Nimoy had trouble keeping a straight face during the song?). I maintain that they had a properly respectful professional relationship, and a respectful friendship (since they share an interest in music, that makes sense). At no time would I expect to see Original Spock and Original Uhura kissing anywhere, never mind in public, or while on duty.

I really wish you would all stop assuming that because I don't like nuTrek, that means I also must not like other deviations from the run of the mill Trek. None of those others ever claimed that THEY were now the "official" Star Trek.

What's next - you're going to say that because I hate Brussels sprouts, I must hate every other green vegetable?
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Old October 9 2013, 09:11 AM   #152
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

I really wish you would all stop assuming that because I don't like nuTrek, that means I also must not like other deviations from the run of the mill Trek. None of those others ever claimed that THEY were now the "official" Star Trek.
The entire concept of Trek canon (what's "real" Trek and what isn't) began with Roddenberry's decree that the novels and The Animated Series don't count around the start of The Next Generation. If that's not saying "This is official Star Trek, that isn't" then I don't know what is.
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Old October 9 2013, 09:42 AM   #153
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
The entire concept of Trek canon (what's "real" Trek and what isn't) began with Roddenberry's decree that the novels and The Animated Series don't count around the start of The Next Generation. If that's not saying "This is official Star Trek, that isn't" then I don't know what is.
That's not what was proposed, though. The decree was made during the hiatus between Seasons One and Two, and the statement was most often being quoted by Richard Arnold, attempting to answer questions by fans at ST conventions and in "The Communicator", the official newsletter of the Official Fan Club.

Essentially, fans were bringing up continuity clashes between the novels and comics vs TNG and the TOS movies, such as "How can Worf be the first Klingon to serve on a Federation ship when we saw Konom do so, under Kirk, in the DC Comic?"

Of course, TAS had not been available to most viewers in several years, Filmation was being wound down and sold off in chunks, and the novels and comics are still read by only about 2% of the audience, so why should TNG's writers be forced to comply with every licensed tie-in, which often already clashed with each other anyway?

"That memo" of 1989 was directed at licensees, not fans.
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Old October 9 2013, 09:57 AM   #154
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Whoever they aimed it at originally, Arnold was still essentially telling fans what's official Trek and what isn't (something I don't believe Abrams' team have done, beyond parroting "only what's on-screen is canon"). I'm not saying it's right or wrong for them to have done so.
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Old October 9 2013, 01:25 PM   #155
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Uhura was flirting with Spock, and he was in the mood to play along (both literally and in the sense of camaraderie - or maybe it was just that Leonard Nimoy had trouble keeping a straight face during the song?). I maintain that they had a properly respectful professional relationship, and a respectful friendship (since they share an interest in music, that makes sense). At no time would I expect to see Original Spock and Original Uhura kissing anywhere, never mind in public, or while on duty.
That's your interpretation. And it's a valid one -- but so is the interpretation of Orci and Kurtzman that it's perfectly possible that the two were in a relationship.

My point was, that relationship wasn't some crazy thing they threw in there out of nowhere -- there's evidence in TOS to support the notion, primarily in "Charlie X" and "The Man Trap."
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Old October 9 2013, 08:54 PM   #156
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Whoever they aimed it at originally, Arnold was still essentially telling fans what's official Trek and what isn't (something I don't believe Abrams' team have done, beyond parroting "only what's on-screen is canon"). I'm not saying it's right or wrong for them to have done so.
If I understand the history correctly, Arnold was/is a bit of an interesting character when it comes to his role in the franchise.


KRAD wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Uhura was flirting with Spock, and he was in the mood to play along (both literally and in the sense of camaraderie - or maybe it was just that Leonard Nimoy had trouble keeping a straight face during the song?). I maintain that they had a properly respectful professional relationship, and a respectful friendship (since they share an interest in music, that makes sense). At no time would I expect to see Original Spock and Original Uhura kissing anywhere, never mind in public, or while on duty.
That's your interpretation. And it's a valid one -- but so is the interpretation of Orci and Kurtzman that it's perfectly possible that the two were in a relationship.

My point was, that relationship wasn't some crazy thing they threw in there out of nowhere -- there's evidence in TOS to support the notion, primarily in "Charlie X" and "The Man Trap."
I've not seen anything in terms of the characters backstory that was created completely from vapor in the Nu-Trek movies. Like it or not, we should at least be grateful that the Nu-Trek team put in the effort to research the EU to fill in the gaps left by the shows and movies, rather than just pull something out of their ass. Hell, they could have made a campy "homage" to Star Trek (think the 1980s Dragnet comedy film) instead of telling a serious sci-fi film.
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Old October 9 2013, 09:40 PM   #157
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Spock/Uhura is logical.
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Old October 9 2013, 09:53 PM   #158
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Hell, they could have made a campy "homage" to Star Trek (think the 1980s Dragnet comedy film) instead of telling a serious sci-fi film.
Or "The Brady Bunch" movie, which was hilarious and clever (but probably didn't need two more sequels).
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Old October 9 2013, 10:56 PM   #159
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Honestly, the whole Spock/Uhura thing is one of my favorite parts of the reboot, precisely because this is unexplored territory.
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Old October 9 2013, 11:16 PM   #160
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

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Honestly, the whole Spock/Uhura thing is one of my favorite parts of the reboot, precisely because this is unexplored territory.
Well not if you read slash-fic...just saying.

Still. These two are a better fit (no pun) than Chapel and Spock. Uhura--TOS and Nu--actually seems like the sort of woman that Spock would interested in.
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Old October 9 2013, 11:19 PM   #161
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Back on topic, I thought of another one - the away team's insertion in Cold Equations: The Persistence of Memory was a hybrid of probe-riding from TNG: "Emissary" and space-jumping from ST'09.
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Old October 9 2013, 11:33 PM   #162
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

KRAD wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Uhura was flirting with Spock, and he was in the mood to play along (both literally and in the sense of camaraderie - or maybe it was just that Leonard Nimoy had trouble keeping a straight face during the song?). I maintain that they had a properly respectful professional relationship, and a respectful friendship (since they share an interest in music, that makes sense). At no time would I expect to see Original Spock and Original Uhura kissing anywhere, never mind in public, or while on duty.
That's your interpretation. And it's a valid one -- but so is the interpretation of Orci and Kurtzman that it's perfectly possible that the two were in a relationship.

My point was, that relationship wasn't some crazy thing they threw in there out of nowhere -- there's evidence in TOS to support the notion, primarily in "Charlie X" and "The Man Trap."
So it's valid to say that every time two or more TOS characters treated each other with respect, professionalism, or camaraderie, they were in a more intimate relationship? That's ridiculous.

This conversation reminds me of RL conversations with people who insist there is no way that adult men and women can be friends without sex being involved. Sometimes a friend is just a friend.

EDIT: I call BS on the bolded part. If they honestly think Original Spock and Uhura were in a relationship on TOS, they must never have seen "Amok Time." Spock was so embarrassed about the topic of sex, he could barely bring himself to tell Kirk about it, never mind anyone else (don't bring up Droxine; that scene never made any sense at all). And there was no flirting or anything else between Spock and Uhura after "Amok Time" so I don't see any evidence whatsoever that they went past casual friends.
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Old October 9 2013, 11:36 PM   #163
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Back on topic, I thought of another one - the away team's insertion in Cold Equations: The Persistence of Memory was a hybrid of probe-riding from TNG: "Emissary" and space-jumping from ST'09.
Huh, I was thinking Starship Troopers (book) when I read that scene. But you're take works too. Cramming people into torpedo casings seems to be a thing in Trek. Hate to think what Academy hazing is like.
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Old October 10 2013, 12:06 AM   #164
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

Timewalker wrote: View Post
KRAD wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Uhura was flirting with Spock, and he was in the mood to play along (both literally and in the sense of camaraderie - or maybe it was just that Leonard Nimoy had trouble keeping a straight face during the song?). I maintain that they had a properly respectful professional relationship, and a respectful friendship (since they share an interest in music, that makes sense). At no time would I expect to see Original Spock and Original Uhura kissing anywhere, never mind in public, or while on duty.
That's your interpretation. And it's a valid one -- but so is the interpretation of Orci and Kurtzman that it's perfectly possible that the two were in a relationship.

My point was, that relationship wasn't some crazy thing they threw in there out of nowhere -- there's evidence in TOS to support the notion, primarily in "Charlie X" and "The Man Trap."
So it's valid to say that every time two or more TOS characters treated each other with respect, professionalism, or camaraderie, they were in a more intimate relationship? That's ridiculous.

This conversation reminds me of RL conversations with people who insist there is no way that adult men and women can be friends without sex being involved. Sometimes a friend is just a friend.

EDIT: I call BS on the bolded part. If they honestly think Original Spock and Uhura were in a relationship on TOS, they must never have seen "Amok Time." Spock was so embarrassed about the topic of sex, he could barely bring himself to tell Kirk about it, never mind anyone else (don't bring up Droxine; that scene never made any sense at all). And there was no flirting or anything else between Spock and Uhura after "Amok Time" so I don't see any evidence whatsoever that they went past casual friends.
I don't think anyone was saying they were in a relationship. They were just saying that the interactions we saw in those scenes were flirtatious enough that them being in a relationship in an alternate universe isn't a totally ridiculous idea. At least that was how I read it.
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Old October 10 2013, 12:10 AM   #165
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Re: NuTrek references in the novels

JD wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
KRAD wrote: View Post
That's your interpretation. And it's a valid one -- but so is the interpretation of Orci and Kurtzman that it's perfectly possible that the two were in a relationship.

My point was, that relationship wasn't some crazy thing they threw in there out of nowhere -- there's evidence in TOS to support the notion, primarily in "Charlie X" and "The Man Trap."
So it's valid to say that every time two or more TOS characters treated each other with respect, professionalism, or camaraderie, they were in a more intimate relationship? That's ridiculous.

This conversation reminds me of RL conversations with people who insist there is no way that adult men and women can be friends without sex being involved. Sometimes a friend is just a friend.

EDIT: I call BS on the bolded part. If they honestly think Original Spock and Uhura were in a relationship on TOS, they must never have seen "Amok Time." Spock was so embarrassed about the topic of sex, he could barely bring himself to tell Kirk about it, never mind anyone else (don't bring up Droxine; that scene never made any sense at all). And there was no flirting or anything else between Spock and Uhura after "Amok Time" so I don't see any evidence whatsoever that they went past casual friends.
I don't think anyone was saying they were in a relationship. They were just saying that the interactions we saw in those scenes were flirtatious enough that them being in a relationship in an alternate universe isn't a totally ridiculous idea. At least that was how I read it.
You got it right. Where they? Probably not. Could they have been? Sure. The foundation was there in TOS, it's plausible and it works.
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