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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old October 6 2013, 05:19 AM   #16
Green Shirt
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
For clarity's sake ...

"Counselor" is one who offers counsel, as in "the President's Chief Counsel."

"Councilor" (sic) is one who serves on a council, or in years past, "councilman."

Just a pet peeve. Carry on.
Thanks for the clarity, its good to get this cannon problem cleared up.
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Old October 6 2013, 08:26 AM   #17
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Interesting. Though, by issuing directives for the therapy and prescribing medication which the nurse will inject or give to the patient, they're telling the nurse what needs to be done. Yes?
Yes, but that means they're in charge of the therapy (but not all of it), not in charge of the nurse, doctor's cannot hire, fire or discipline nurses ... well, they can if they own a private practice but in the private sector a nurse could hire a doctor and be their boss, too.

Would a nurse do these without a doctor's authorization?
No, but a nurse will not do it if it would endanger a patient and there are other parts of the therapy where the nurse or another profession is in charge and a doctor's authorization is neither required nor asked for. At least in hospitals it's a team, everyone has authority in different areas but not over each other.

I think in starfleet it would make sense to have a single cmo for the entire medical staff, but if "chief medical officer" is more of an administrative position I could see a high ranking nurse doing the job too.
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Old October 6 2013, 09:17 AM   #18
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

I remember reading something a while ago about the development of TNG and for a time 'Lieutenant' Troi was attached to the Medical Department, but as the premise went through development she was moved to a seat on the Bridge in order to make the role a stronger and more prominent one.
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Old October 6 2013, 05:58 PM   #19
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

when she was acting in her capacity as 'counsellor', helping crew with psycological issues that a hypospray cannot cure (bear in mind the ED has over 1000 people on board, a fair number are are families / children, it is likely that there will be a reasonable need for the 'talking therapy' that counsellors provide. In this capacity it would be logical that her 'boss' is Crusher. - didnt Barclay see her about his holoaddiction? . It would seem logical that most large starships would have someone doing this, probably attached to the medical department.

However this function would appear to be part-time. When she is called to the bridge to assist the commanding officer in combat and first contact situations - due to her Betazoid abilities, I would assume she reports directly to the commanding officer at the time (usually Picard or Riker).

It would also appear that, as her career develops, she reduces her role as general counsellor, and becomes more bridge orientated. Effectively she transfers from medical to command departments.
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Old October 9 2013, 04:14 AM   #20
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
TNG never treated Troi's counseling sessions as a form of medical treatment the way modern psychiatry does, they treated it like the pop psychology image of people just going into an office to have someone to whine to and talk out their emotional issues. And we never saw Troi prescribe any kind of medication, and she never appeared to have a medical degree. Her method of treatment was to keep the patient's dead husband's belongings until the patient realizes she's not over his death.
She always seemed way underqualified to be doling out advice. Being an empath hardly qualifies someone as a counselor. I would hope she had some training, but if she did, it never shone through.

Also, why did she wear so much non-regulation spandex?
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Old October 9 2013, 04:30 AM   #21
Nerys Myk
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Kooz wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
TNG never treated Troi's counseling sessions as a form of medical treatment the way modern psychiatry does, they treated it like the pop psychology image of people just going into an office to have someone to whine to and talk out their emotional issues. And we never saw Troi prescribe any kind of medication, and she never appeared to have a medical degree. Her method of treatment was to keep the patient's dead husband's belongings until the patient realizes she's not over his death.
She always seemed way underqualified to be doling out advice. Being an empath hardly qualifies someone as a counselor. I would hope she had some training, but if she did, it never shone through.

Also, why did she wear so much non-regulation spandex?
Apparently she study psychology at the University of Beatzoid and Starfleet Academy, receiving a degree.

Who said it was non-regulation?
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Old October 9 2013, 10:38 PM   #22
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Kooz wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
TNG never treated Troi's counseling sessions as a form of medical treatment the way modern psychiatry does, they treated it like the pop psychology image of people just going into an office to have someone to whine to and talk out their emotional issues. And we never saw Troi prescribe any kind of medication, and she never appeared to have a medical degree. Her method of treatment was to keep the patient's dead husband's belongings until the patient realizes she's not over his death.
Also, why did she wear so much non-regulation spandex?
Who said it was non-regulation?
Fair point.
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Old October 10 2013, 12:23 AM   #23
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

It's not as straightforward as all that. You have to remember that Starfleet isn't EXACTLY the military.

It appears that Starfleet Captains get to set the tone and control just who is on Senior Staff. Picard was Captain of the flagship, and he decided that he wanted a counselor to serve on his senior staff due to the likelihood and importance of diplomatic missions.

Picard was also a very cerebral guy. He was introspective and valued having a grasp on who and what he was; what his strengths and weaknesses were. He therefor elevated the importance of the ship's counselor to senior staff because it was something he, Picard, valued.

Imaginefor a minute you are on a science vessel doing deep space exploration. You might have a senior staff that included BOTh a Chief science officer and ALSO a chief astrometrics (or stellar cartography) officer because you have placed an added emphasis on science roles. That's both your call as captain, as well as the nature of your ship and her mission.

I doubt very much a senior staff has "MUST HAVE" positions. Maybe commonly held ones, but each captain probably can assemble their "team" as they see fit.

Look at Deep Space 9. They mentioned several times that there were several ship's counselors on board. You never saw them, because they weren't on senior staff. When Ezri Dax showed up (shudder), Sisko wanted to keep "Dax" as a team member, and suddenly chief counselor was on senior staff. He made the call as captain that his team would benefit from her.

Troi was practically a civilian. She didn't even wear a uniform until the last season, when suddenly a serious career in Starfleet appealed to her. Until that point, she was much more a mental and spiritual advisor. She didn't report to the CMO. She worked in conjunction with her in matters relating to the crew's mental health. In Beverly needed to pull rank, then yeah, up until the baloney promotion they gave Troi, she could have ordered her (Troi) to do something in a pinch.

Again, Starfleet is not the military. Things worked differently, and in some areas, more loosely.
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Old October 10 2013, 06:48 AM   #24
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Kooz wrote: View Post
Also, why did she wear so much non-regulation spandex?
Who said it was non-regulation?
Captain Jellico in the 'Chain of Command' two-parter when he told her to wear a uniform on the bridge.

Her jumpsuits gave no true indication of her affiliation with Starfleet, her rank, position, department...nothing. Even Ro Laren was surprised to find out that Troi was a ranking officer in 'Disaster', and she was part of the bridge crew!
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Old October 10 2013, 07:23 AM   #25
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

F0under wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Kooz wrote: View Post
Also, why did she wear so much non-regulation spandex?
Who said it was non-regulation?
Captain Jellico in the 'Chain of Command' two-parter when he told her to wear a uniform on the bridge.

Her jumpsuits gave no true indication of her affiliation with Starfleet, her rank, position, department...nothing. Even Ro Laren was surprised to find out that Troi was a ranking officer in 'Disaster', and she was part of the bridge crew!
I always thought that Ro knew her rank and just wasn't going to acknowledge it given how out of depth she was until O'brien backed Troi.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:05 AM   #26
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

She always seemed way underqualified to be doling out advice. Being an empath hardly qualifies someone as a counselor. I would hope she had some training, but if she did, it never shone through.
I doubt she was underqualified, because we saw her helping Picard in some diplomatic missions, like mentioned at the start of the episode Captains Holiday.
It would have been better for the show if she indeed would have been more of an advisor/diplomatic aide than a shrink, though I did not mind the latter either
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Old October 10 2013, 02:04 PM   #27
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

She definately did seem to do more as a diplomatic/cultural specialist than she ever did as a Counsellor.
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Old October 10 2013, 02:36 PM   #28
Nerys Myk
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

F0under wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Kooz wrote: View Post
Also, why did she wear so much non-regulation spandex?
Who said it was non-regulation?
Captain Jellico in the 'Chain of Command' two-parter when he told her to wear a uniform on the bridge.

Her jumpsuits gave no true indication of her affiliation with Starfleet, her rank, position, department...nothing. Even Ro Laren was surprised to find out that Troi was a ranking officer in 'Disaster', and she was part of the bridge crew!
Sounds like a Captain's preference than a regulation. He could have told Worf to ditch the baldric, too.
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Old October 10 2013, 03:00 PM   #29
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Kooz wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
TNG never treated Troi's counseling sessions as a form of medical treatment the way modern psychiatry does, they treated it like the pop psychology image of people just going into an office to have someone to whine to and talk out their emotional issues. And we never saw Troi prescribe any kind of medication, and she never appeared to have a medical degree. Her method of treatment was to keep the patient's dead husband's belongings until the patient realizes she's not over his death.
She always seemed way underqualified to be doling out advice. Being an empath hardly qualifies someone as a counselor. I would hope she had some training, but if she did, it never shone through.

Also, why did she wear so much non-regulation spandex?
My guess it that it's easier for her patients if she does not wear a uniform.
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Old October 10 2013, 06:20 PM   #30
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Re: Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Marten wrote: View Post
Kooz wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
TNG never treated Troi's counseling sessions as a form of medical treatment the way modern psychiatry does, they treated it like the pop psychology image of people just going into an office to have someone to whine to and talk out their emotional issues. And we never saw Troi prescribe any kind of medication, and she never appeared to have a medical degree. Her method of treatment was to keep the patient's dead husband's belongings until the patient realizes she's not over his death.
She always seemed way underqualified to be doling out advice. Being an empath hardly qualifies someone as a counselor. I would hope she had some training, but if she did, it never shone through.

Also, why did she wear so much non-regulation spandex?
My guess it that it's easier for her patients if she does not wear a uniform.
Pretty much. I think it was to create a sense of informality, particularly in regards to discussions of personal matters.
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