RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,261
Posts: 5,349,353
Members: 24,614
Currently online: 537
Newest member: robyn

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Revelation and Dust.
Outstanding 29 25.89%
Above Average 45 40.18%
Average 25 22.32%
Below Average 7 6.25%
Poor 6 5.36%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 4 2013, 09:34 PM   #346
Thrawn
Rear Admiral
 
Thrawn's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sho wrote: View Post
Man, I have to strain hard to resist posting random YouTube videos from the "It gets better" campaign ...
__________________
The Almighty Star Trek Lit-Verse Reading Order Flowchart - be confused no longer about what to read next, or what to read first.
Thrawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5 2013, 09:49 PM   #347
Paper Moon
Commander
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

This thread takes me back to the days of Rough Beasts of Empire. Oy.

After I finish a novel, I write out my thoughts before going through the thread. My review is below, followed by comments on what some others have said.

Spoilers abound ahead.

***

In my experience, books that DRGIII writes which are parts of larger series tend to stand better as part of those series than they do on their own. Both Rough Beasts of Empire and Plagues of Night were like this, and I suspect, in hindsight, Revelation and Dust will as well.

So, after finishing all of The Fall novels, I will probably revisit RaD and reevaluate.

Until then:

Very good, 4 stars out of 5.

A solid read, a definite pageturner. Clearly felt that the novel overall was not intended to be standalone [EDIT: though it can still be enjoyed as such]. The Keev storyline concluded definitively, but none of the others did. I enjoyed the Keev storyline well enough, especially towards the end when its thematic parallels became clearer (especially the tunnel through the mountains as an analogue for the wormhole). [EDIT: wow, just made the connection between the cavern glowing red from Aleira mining and the Tzenkethi wormhole being red; well-played, DRGIII.] Kira’s situation through much of the novel is fascinating; I’ve always felt that the Prophets

The assassination of President Bacco did not feel as disastrous as I would’ve expected. The attempt on her life in Silent Weapons and the death of Piñiero in the same felt much more vivid. I will say that I shall be disappointed if we don’t get a damn good story in the wake of her death; such a character’s loss should reap some benefit for the reader.

I love the new Deep Space Nine starbase. What a bold vision. Would love to see someone take a stab at building a CGI model.

The wormhole’s return was wonderful.

The Fall has been described as taking place over the course of 60 days. That’s pretty clearly a reference to the time until a new president is elected.

Happy with what’s being done with the DS9 characters for the most part, and glad to see the old guard being integrated with the newbies in terms of story focus.

But I still really missed the characters. We were with each for such a short time, and more often than not, we heard what they had done, without seeing it. This absence was especially pointed when Rom and Nog showed up at Quark’s; it would’ve made me so happy to see everyone interacting again. Would’ve felt just like watching a new episode of the show.

This may be one way that DRGIII is not as well-suited to writing Deep Space Nine. His stories are so epic, they lack the time to “come down to earth” to hang out with the characters for extended periods of time. I feel that most other Trek authors are better at finding that balance.

All in all, however, a solid book, one that will merit many rereads.

Now, on to The Crimson Shadow!

***

Paris wrote: View Post
I voted above average, but would have voted for something higher if there was a level between Above Average and Outstanding.
Me too.

I thought it was a great character piece. At first I didn't really dig the Keev parts, but they really grew on me. I could piture the surroundings and the people and the small pay-off at the end was cool. I can't wait for the next four books in this run, and i'm curious how they'll all tie together.
Yeah, that was my perception of the Keev story too. (A little more on that in my reply to Dimesdan below.)

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
In any event, I finished Revelation and Dust a couple of hours ago. Like most of DRG3's books, I truly appreciate the world-building, the vivid description, and proper voice he gives to the characters. But like most of DRG3's recent books, I don't love it. I haven't loved one of his books since Twilight. It seems to be that he needs longer page counts to really tell the story he wants to, and in recent efforts, those stories have been spread out over several novels, or unfortunately condensed in ways that undermine both their structure and nuance.
Yeah, I hinted at this in my review, but I definitely felt the same way, both about like-not-love, and page counts. Damn shame.

Reading through the thread, apart from the pissing matches over the book's worth, I'm surprised by a couple of things: …, and the number of people that "didn't get" the ancient Bajor chapters. … by now, I would have thought readers were used to these kind of metaphorical sidesteps into an alternate life and thus able to see how it relates to the present as the tale develops and not only at the end.
Yeah, I'm really surprised too. Granted, the metaphor is not as immediately apparent as it was in RtD, but it's still there. I would say, however, that the Keev story parallels more with the end of RtD than it does with RaD. But I'm still digesting.

Dimesdan wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
Dimesdan wrote: View Post

And that is why it fails.
On it's own, it doesn't fail. It's how it does with the other books that matters. I don't care that it's not 100% self-contained. It's part of a mini-series.
But here's the thing, we're told on here that all the stories can be read independently of each other, even on memory beta it says this:

Star Trek: The Fall is an upcoming five-part Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Titan miniseries that will be released between late 2013 and early 2014. The series is set over a sixty day period, but each novel will have a self-contained story. The Typhon Pact is to be the antagonist throughout the series.
So yes, because it can not be read as it's own thing, it needs the other Fall novels to be 100% complete in your, and my opinion makes it, in my opinion fail.

I'm sure once all five novels are released and read, this one will be retroactively improved, but as it stands now, on it's own, independent from all the others, it is lacking and it fails because it can not be enjoyed on it's own in my opinion.
The quote from Memory Beta says that each novel will have a self-contained story. Revelation and Dust did: the Keev story.

It had a beginning, a middle and an end. As a story, it can even be appreciated when removed from the context of Star Trek.

It's pretty clear to me that the Keev story is a allegory for a bunch of major events in the "real Trekverse," some of which we've seen, others of which I'm pretty sure we haven't.

Among other things:
-it addresses how Kira learned that Sisko was safe to spend his life with Kasidy
-it alludes to how the wormhole was restored
-it hints, very very indirectly, at the true nature of the Prophets

The Bacco storyline would seem to be the "more important" of the two. But I bet that, in hindsight, we'll agree that the Keev story was a bigger deal.

In any case, arguing that Revelation and Dust can't stand on its own basically ignores half the book, in my opinion. For the last ten years, Trek novels have almost always split themselves up between telling standalone stories and contributing to the larger multi-novel arcs. Don't see why this one should be held to a different standard.
Paper Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5 2013, 10:24 PM   #348
JeBuS
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
In any case, arguing that Revelation and Dust can't stand on its own basically ignores half the book, in my opinion. For the last ten years, Trek novels have almost always split themselves up between telling standalone stories and contributing to the larger multi-novel arcs. Don't see why this one should be held to a different standard.
Because this book wasn't sold as what it turned out to be. It was a short story about Keev wrapped up in and chopped up by entirely pointless DS9 text. (Pointless, because as stated before, it had no bearing on the plot of this book.)

It was sold as standalone. Read the publisher's description, and you'll see that the book was sold as primarily a story about the new station, the reunion of familiar faces, the meeting of heads of state, and the dastardly plot. Then the description talks about answering questions about Kira's fate. I don't think the content of this book fulfilled any of that promise.

Was there a plot involving the new station? Kinda. Something happened at the new station, but it could have happened anywhere.

Was there a reunion of familiar faces? Kinda. They were all there, but they didn't do anything.

Was there a meeting of heads of state? Kinda. They certainly were there, but again, they didn't do anything.

Was there a dastardly plot? Kinda. Something happened, but the book barely addressed the plot before it was over.

Did we learn about Kira's fate? Kinda. We learned about Keev. We read about Kira watching the emissary scene again. But Kira herself? Not much until the very end of the book.

This book should be held to the same standard as any other novel. In comparison, it was a vastly incomplete book. It lacked a major plot. It lacked character arcs on any of the major characters. It contained way too much "telling" rather than "showing."

Keev's story was the only one with a complete plot and a complete story arc.
JeBuS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6 2013, 06:07 AM   #349
Paper Moon
Commander
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JeBuS wrote: View Post
This book should be held to the same standard as any other novel. In comparison, it was a vastly incomplete book. It lacked a major plot. It lacked character arcs on any of the major characters. It contained way too much "telling" rather than "showing."

Keev's story was the only one with a complete plot and a complete story arc.
But that's what I'm getting at right there: it seems contradictory to say that the novel lacks a major plot and to then say that the story which took up half the novel was the only one with a complete plot and a complete story arc. I think taking up half the book qualifies the Keev story as a major plot.

Look, I'm not saying that the book was perfect. I could've done with more story focused on the station. But at the same time, I also wouldn't have wanted to sacrifice any of the threads that we got. The novel continuity, and DS9 specifically, has about a gazillion stories going on right now, and I was happy to see them all advance.

The other choice would've been to slim down the Keev narrative. Maybe DRGIII should've done that. I did think that some of the early chapters in the Keev story could've been trimmed. (I would not have wanted the retelling of "Emissary" to have been cut. That part was important, at least, to me.) But I think he was very deliberate in keeping that story in in its entirety. As I said in my post, there are several things I think that story is supposed to explain, both directly and indirectly, and those things were important.

And if he had slimmed down the Keev narrative, then we would've argued that there were no plots at all. Really, with all the stories that DRGIII inherited for this volume, he would've had to outright ignore half-a-dozen stories to focus on one or two. And, frankly, that would've sucked.

As for the book not being what was marketed... I feel that's what we get for most Trek novels these days. It's not a precise analogue, but notice how we always see actors from the shows on the covers, even if they're no more than bit characters. It's how they attract new readers. Same thing with those descriptions. Unless we want stories that are "safe" from a marketing perspective (ie. doing what they know works– read: stuff that's already been done), we shouldn't expect the descriptions to be 100% accurate.
Paper Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6 2013, 08:28 AM   #350
Mage
Commodore
 
Mage's Avatar
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
This thread takes me back to the days of Rough Beasts of Empire. Oy.

After I finish a novel, I write out my thoughts before going through the thread. My review is below, followed by comments on what some others have said.

Spoilers abound ahead.

***

In my experience, books that DRGIII writes which are parts of larger series tend to stand better as part of those series than they do on their own. Both Rough Beasts of Empire and Plagues of Night were like this, and I suspect, in hindsight, Revelation and Dust will as well.

So, after finishing all of The Fall novels, I will probably revisit RaD and reevaluate.

Until then:

Very good, 4 stars out of 5.

A solid read, a definite pageturner. Clearly felt that the novel overall was not intended to be standalone [EDIT: though it can still be enjoyed as such]. The Keev storyline concluded definitively, but none of the others did. I enjoyed the Keev storyline well enough, especially towards the end when its thematic parallels became clearer (especially the tunnel through the mountains as an analogue for the wormhole). [EDIT: wow, just made the connection between the cavern glowing red from Aleira mining and the Tzenkethi wormhole being red; well-played, DRGIII.] Kira’s situation through much of the novel is fascinating; I’ve always felt that the Prophets

The assassination of President Bacco did not feel as disastrous as I would’ve expected. The attempt on her life in Silent Weapons and the death of Piñiero in the same felt much more vivid. I will say that I shall be disappointed if we don’t get a damn good story in the wake of her death; such a character’s loss should reap some benefit for the reader.

I love the new Deep Space Nine starbase. What a bold vision. Would love to see someone take a stab at building a CGI model.

The wormhole’s return was wonderful.

The Fall has been described as taking place over the course of 60 days. That’s pretty clearly a reference to the time until a new president is elected.

Happy with what’s being done with the DS9 characters for the most part, and glad to see the old guard being integrated with the newbies in terms of story focus.

But I still really missed the characters. We were with each for such a short time, and more often than not, we heard what they had done, without seeing it. This absence was especially pointed when Rom and Nog showed up at Quark’s; it would’ve made me so happy to see everyone interacting again. Would’ve felt just like watching a new episode of the show.

This may be one way that DRGIII is not as well-suited to writing Deep Space Nine. His stories are so epic, they lack the time to “come down to earth” to hang out with the characters for extended periods of time. I feel that most other Trek authors are better at finding that balance.

All in all, however, a solid book, one that will merit many rereads.

Now, on to The Crimson Shadow!

***

Paris wrote: View Post
I voted above average, but would have voted for something higher if there was a level between Above Average and Outstanding.
Me too.

I thought it was a great character piece. At first I didn't really dig the Keev parts, but they really grew on me. I could piture the surroundings and the people and the small pay-off at the end was cool. I can't wait for the next four books in this run, and i'm curious how they'll all tie together.
Yeah, that was my perception of the Keev story too. (A little more on that in my reply to Dimesdan below.)



Yeah, I hinted at this in my review, but I definitely felt the same way, both about like-not-love, and page counts. Damn shame.



Yeah, I'm really surprised too. Granted, the metaphor is not as immediately apparent as it was in RtD, but it's still there. I would say, however, that the Keev story parallels more with the end of RtD than it does with RaD. But I'm still digesting.

Dimesdan wrote: View Post

But here's the thing, we're told on here that all the stories can be read independently of each other, even on memory beta it says this:

Star Trek: The Fall is an upcoming five-part Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Titan miniseries that will be released between late 2013 and early 2014. The series is set over a sixty day period, but each novel will have a self-contained story. The Typhon Pact is to be the antagonist throughout the series.
So yes, because it can not be read as it's own thing, it needs the other Fall novels to be 100% complete in your, and my opinion makes it, in my opinion fail.

I'm sure once all five novels are released and read, this one will be retroactively improved, but as it stands now, on it's own, independent from all the others, it is lacking and it fails because it can not be enjoyed on it's own in my opinion.
The quote from Memory Beta says that each novel will have a self-contained story. Revelation and Dust did: the Keev story.

It had a beginning, a middle and an end. As a story, it can even be appreciated when removed from the context of Star Trek.

It's pretty clear to me that the Keev story is a allegory for a bunch of major events in the "real Trekverse," some of which we've seen, others of which I'm pretty sure we haven't.

Among other things:
-it addresses how Kira learned that Sisko was safe to spend his life with Kasidy
-it alludes to how the wormhole was restored
-it hints, very very indirectly, at the true nature of the Prophets

The Bacco storyline would seem to be the "more important" of the two. But I bet that, in hindsight, we'll agree that the Keev story was a bigger deal.

In any case, arguing that Revelation and Dust can't stand on its own basically ignores half the book, in my opinion. For the last ten years, Trek novels have almost always split themselves up between telling standalone stories and contributing to the larger multi-novel arcs. Don't see why this one should be held to a different standard.

Basicly, I agree with this entire post.

In a way, The Crimson Shadow did the same thing. One story line that started and ended with another (the entire assination attempt) running through it.
DRGIII, unfortunatly, had to not only do a self-contained story (what happened to Kira) he also had to setup the red line that goes through all these novels. Not just that, for those who missed a few novels, you need to tell some backstory. Hardcore fans don't like that, I can understand, but it's been more then a year since we last visited the entire Typhon Pact story line involving DS9, so for those who haven't read those or didn't re-read, some recap was in order.
Then, since some people are very much into ship/station porn, he also had to take some time to describe the new station.
All in all, a pretty hard job.

In sight, I wished I hadn't voted yet. I voted outstanding, because I felt the characters were spot on, the setup for the rest of the novels was great, the reveals at the end left be wanting for more. But perhaps I should judge The Fall as one book, when I've finished them all.

In the mean time, after they are all released and everything has settled, a re-read is order for me. However, I think I will first read all the Keev parts of the book, and treat that as a single story. Then, after a while, the entire DS9 parts, to again see that as a single story. Perhaps that will put some things in perspective.
__________________
Niner. Lurker. Browncoat.
Mage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 7 2013, 03:24 AM   #351
Sakrysta
Vice Admiral
 
Sakrysta's Avatar
 
Location: Sakrysta
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Wow. What a thread. I have a headache from all the shouting at brick walls going on in here.

I haven't decided yet how I'll vote, but I'm leaning toward "Average." Just a few thoughts I'll toss out there for the rabid dogs to fight over. I am not going to use spoiler code, because logic.

I thought the re-telling of Benjamin's first encounter with the Prophets in "Emissary" with Kira as witness was ultimately a waste of time. We already have a novelization of the episode. If Kira had seen something new, something that tied into her ultimate message for Ben ... well, no, even then, I don't think it would have been worth the time/pages spent on it.

I struggled through the descriptions of the new station. I think this is at least partially a lack on my part, as I have a hard time creating mental pictures from written descriptions - especially when it comes to architectural structures. The Kira half of the story I had no problem picturing. The more I think about it, the more I think the descriptions were too specific, as if my imagination kept trying to correct what I had already pictured every time more detail was added. And there was just a lot of it. I get we're trying to create an affection for this new station, but it's going to take me a while. I LOVED the old station. I thought it was a beautiful, elegant design. I always had more trouble picturing it as an ore processing plant than I did as a lively crossroads in space. No matter how much they dress up the new place, it will still feel like Starfleet-sterile to me.

I completely missed the metaphor of the tunnel as the wormhole. I'm glad it was pointed out in the thread. It helps add a little more value for me to the Kira plot. Did anyone else notice that her counterpart's name - Keev - is the same family name of the terrorist leader way back in TNG's "Ensign Ro"? No one has mentioned it yet in the thread, so I thought I'd point that out. His name was Keev Falor. I strongly doubt the choice was coincidental.

I spent the whole second half of the novel expecting Sarina to be the one behind the president's assassination. When in the last chapter, the author began speaking from her point of view, it completely killed that theory and left me frustrated. I don't doubt that the Tzenkethi could be behind the plot, but leaving ANY traceable evidence behind seems sloppy given how they've been characterized recently. I still strongly suspect Section 31's involvement, and if not them, someone else is pointing the finger at the Tzenkethi, rather than them being directly responsible. I find them compelling as a species and culture, though, so I look forward to seeing more of them as the series progresses.

(As a sidebar, can I just say I HATE what the novels have done with Sarina?! I loved her sweet character as she was presented on the show. To turn her into uber-spy sneaky lying to Bashir woman of mystery just absolutely guts her. I loved her as an ultimate match for Bashir, but now I just want her to go away. )

The Keev section I thought was pretty much just there. When Veralla gave her the Orb of Destiny ... what happened to the orb again? Did it just disappear? Did she somehow return it to the wormhole? I'm very confused. And I thought we had already resolved that Ben was free to return to Kasidy and his life. And I don't much like him not being the Emissary anymore. As far as the Prophets are concerned, "not anymore" shouldn't really be a thing. But I've noticed writers have had a hard time dealing with the Prophets' existence outside time, pretty much since the pilot. If Benjamin is "The Sisko," then as far as the Prophets are concerned, how can he stop being "The Sisko"? But then, we've heard them using statements like "completed his task" and "will have no rest there" which at least imply a change in being. Whatever. I admit I'm being a bit cranky, but I want Sisko back on the station helping Bajor again, and I miss his relationship with the Prophets.

Can we please get a break from killing off good characters???? More and more I feel each death is simply the authors' way of getting rid of an inconvenient person so they can tell the story they want to tell. This time, it's we want to rock the foundations of the Federation's government, and Nan Bacco is too strong a leader, so she has to go. I just ... I'm tired of being stabbed in the gut every other novel. Can't we tell a good story anymore without killing off the characters you've spent so much time creating and nurturing? Elias Vaughn. Jasminder Choudhury. Esperanza Piñero. Now Nan Bacco. And I feel like there are several others that are eluding me because it's tired and I'm late. But seriously, stop killing characters off. It's starting to really bother me.

One more rant, and I think I'm done. I miss the people of DS9. Whatever happened to Shar? How is Prynn? Counselor Matthias? Did Vedek Yevir die and I've forgotten it, or did he just fall off the radar? And of the characters we have seen lately, only Ro really got any quality time this outing. Bashir is apparently a blind, lovesick puppy (either that, or the writers have decided that Sarina is no longer evil, but I'm not buying that just yet). There's some hope for O'Brien and Nog's return, and at least Ben and Kasidy are doing well, but I really miss the mix of people from the first few years of the relaunch.

So, yeah. The book definitely prompted a reaction. I can't say it was a good one, though I'm aware that not everything I've mentioned above is directly attributable to this book alone. I'm looking forward to the next book, but like so many others, the gaps in time are really starting to grate. We're going to need some fill-in soon, or I'm going to be so lost that I give up.
__________________
This is our small proof, not only that things can be done differently in this business, but that the greatest expression of rebellion is joy.
- Joss Whedon, in his Emmy acceptance speech for Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog
Sakrysta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 7 2013, 04:36 AM   #352
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
The assassination of President Bacco did not feel as disastrous as I would’ve expected. The attempt on her life in Silent Weapons
felt much more vivid. I will say that I shall be disappointed if we don’t get a damn good story in the wake of her death; such a character’s loss should reap some benefit for the reader.
I'm honestly surprised to hear that reaction, because, to me, the assassination of Bacco felt more disastrous -- in part because it was so sudden.

That's something I thought DRGIII did masterfully -- the death scene. He spends the entire chapter building up to the President's speech, you're all caught up in the emotion of it, you're looking forward to Nan having her moment in the spotlight -- and then it happens. Nan doesn't even have enough time to realize what's going on before she's gone. No goodbyes, no realizations, no sense of resolution, no catharsis. She has just enough time to realize she's bleeding, and then she's dead. It's heartbreaking in its brutal honesty.

So, to me, it felt much more sudden and unexpected, and therefore more disastrous.
It was all about building tension and then releasing it, whereas Revelation and Dust was more about setting off a bomb when you least expect it.

Sakrysta wrote: View Post
Can we please get a break from killing off good characters???? More and more I feel each death is simply the authors' way of getting rid of an inconvenient person so they can tell the story they want to tell.
What makes you think that?

My guess -- and this is purely a guess, I have no idea if it's right or not -- is that the death of Nan Bacco was the story they wanted to tell, not that Nan was in the way of the story they wanted to tell. To me, it almost seems as though the writers wanted to do a Star Trek version of the JFK assassination.

The one thing that does bother me, however, is that it seems that most of the characters who have been killed recently are female.
I don't think this was intentional at all, but I think it's a pattern that has inadvertently developed and should be broken the next time there's a major character death.

One more rant, and I think I'm done. I miss the people of DS9. Whatever happened to Shar?
Shar was last seen in Typhon Pact: Paths of Disharmony by Dayton Ward -- and I'd bet good money he's gonna be in this month's The Fall: A Ceremony of Losses, given as how that book is going to focus on the Andorian reproductive crisis thread.

How is Prynn? Counselor Matthias?
Prynn had several scenes in Revelation and Dust and a major sub-plot in Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn last year. Matthias, IIRC, is referred to as still being in the DS9 crew.

Did Vedek Yevir die and I've forgotten it, or did he just fall off the radar?
I don't recall any references to Yevir in the DSN novels since Zero Sum Game; my suspicion is that his story may have been one of the plots that were dropped for the four-year jump.

And of the characters we have seen lately, only Ro really got any quality time this outing. Bashir is apparently a blind, lovesick puppy (either that, or the writers have decided that Sarina is no longer evil, but I'm not buying that just yet).
I'm not sure why you'd say that. To me, the text seems to be saying that Bashir is in love with her, but still isn't quite sure if Sarina is trustworthy or not.

There's some hope for O'Brien and Nog's return, and at least Ben and Kasidy are doing well, but I really miss the mix of people from the first few years of the relaunch.
I think it's much more realistic to have characters move on and advance in their careers, rather than spend decades in the same rank/position a la TOS.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 7 2013, 07:15 PM   #353
Sakrysta
Vice Admiral
 
Sakrysta's Avatar
 
Location: Sakrysta
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ Yeah, I know where we last saw a lot of the people, it just feels like a long sine we've seen them that I don't really feel like I know where they are now. As for Bacco's assassination, it has allowed the authors to maneuver a Bajoran into the role of President Pro-Tem. That could not have happened short of Bacco's either resigning or dying. Resigning would contradict her established character too much, so she has to die.

I don't remember who first mentioned it upthread, but with all the extensive security precautions they were taking, WHY was there no physical shield between speakers and audience???
__________________
This is our small proof, not only that things can be done differently in this business, but that the greatest expression of rebellion is joy.
- Joss Whedon, in his Emmy acceptance speech for Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog
Sakrysta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 12:38 AM   #354
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sakrysta wrote: View Post
As for Bacco's assassination, it has allowed the authors to maneuver a Bajoran into the role of President Pro-Tem. That could not have happened short of Bacco's either resigning or dying. Resigning would contradict her established character too much, so she has to die.
I still think you're assuming a conflict I don't think is in evidence. We don't know that the motivation was to tell a story about an asshole President, and that Nan had to go to make that work; it's just as likely that the story they wanted to tell was itself the death of Nan Bacco and the fallout that results. The series is entitled The Fall, after all.

[Also, they already did a "President Evil" storyline -- nine years ago, with A Time to Kill and A Time to Heal. If that were just the whole goal, it's a bit of a retread.]

To me, it looks a lot like the idea was, in essence, to do a sort of Star Trek version of JFK meets Macbeth. Deep Space 9 is Dallas, Nan is Duncan. If my suspicion is correct, perhaps Ishan is Macbeth/Stone's version of Lyndon B. Johnson? We'll see.

I don't remember who first mentioned it upthread, but with all the extensive security precautions they were taking, WHY was there no physical shield between speakers and audience???
Why was there no physical barrier between George W. Bush and the man who threw a shoe at him?

Because sometimes there's a point where it's no longer reasonable to keep adding security precaution after security precaution, and a potential assassination is just the risk you take.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 12:08 PM   #355
Markonian
Captain
 
Markonian's Avatar
 
Location: Leipzig, Saxony
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sci wrote: View Post
Why was there no physical barrier between George W. Bush and the man who threw a shoe at him?

Because sometimes there's a point where it's no longer reasonable to keep adding security precaution after security precaution, and a potential assassination is just the risk you take.
True, but there is a major technological difference between both president'S eras: In our time, you could put a cumbersome glass/plastic wall between speaker and audience - but in the late 24th century all you need are portable forcefield generators to place an invisible/soundless forcefield.
__________________
1.000 years: University Leipzig, 1409-2409
Gorn to be wild!
Markonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 05:00 PM   #356
Elias Vaughn
Captain
 
Elias Vaughn's Avatar
 
Location: Dead. Or in the Celestial Temple. One of the two.
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sci wrote: View Post
I don't recall any references to Yevir in the DSN novels since Zero Sum Game; my suspicion is that his story may have been one of the plots that were dropped for the four-year jump.
Yevir's character arc was pretty much over by the time of his last appearance. He began as a self-righteous zealot convinced of his own moral infallibility, and then became a person who could see other points of view enough that he went to Cardassia to hook up with the Oralians. His plot wasn't dropped so much as it was over.

And since none of the recent books have had much to do with the Oralians or Bajoran religion not specifically about the Prophets and wormhole, there really hasn't been an organic place for him to cameo without it feeling incredibly forced.

Also nobody likes Yevir. That's just science.
Elias Vaughn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 07:07 PM   #357
toughlittleship
Fleet Captain
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ Wasn't Yevir going to stand for election as kai though?
toughlittleship is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 07:53 PM   #358
Elias Vaughn
Captain
 
Elias Vaughn's Avatar
 
Location: Dead. Or in the Celestial Temple. One of the two.
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

He was planning to, but if memory serves he chose to become a goodwill ambassador to Cardassia instead. It's been forever since I've read Worlds of DS9 though, so I don't remember if he said anything else there.
Elias Vaughn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 9 2013, 01:58 AM   #359
Thrawn
Rear Admiral
 
Thrawn's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I thought that was a fine place to leave Yevir's story. I don't feel like it's aching for a follow-up. Cool to see if he ever does appear, sure, but I'm not upset.
__________________
The Almighty Star Trek Lit-Verse Reading Order Flowchart - be confused no longer about what to read next, or what to read first.
Thrawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 9 2013, 02:02 AM   #360
Elias Vaughn
Captain
 
Elias Vaughn's Avatar
 
Location: Dead. Or in the Celestial Temple. One of the two.
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

That's my thought too. His arc was growing from a character of religious intolerance to one of religious tolerance. There's no better place for him to go than where he went; even becoming Kai would seem to be a step backward considering I think that's what he wanted in the beginning anyway.
Elias Vaughn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.