RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,444
Posts: 5,507,658
Members: 25,133
Currently online: 448
Newest member: jokerone

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 8 2013, 05:10 AM   #76
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
They treated the whole Khan thing way too comic book like. Khan is not the Joker, who is a constant enemy of Batman. Khan is just one of many antagonists, and the crew had to face a lot more problems and adventures.

They confronted V'Ger, the Whale Probe and stopped a Klingon-Federation conspiracy. All that was far more dangerous than Khan ever could haved dreamed of being.
Gotta agree with you on that. But it goes all the way back to TWOK and the fans going Boba Fett with Khan. Over the years Khan's rep has been inflated into him being the only true nemesis of the Enterprise crew. When the reality is that he was never much more of a threat than any of the other one of villains in the episodes.
I disagree. In the two times the Enterprise encountered Khan, he managed to successfully hijack not one but TWO Federation starships; the first time the crew regained control only due to the sudden face-turn of Khan's bottom bitch, and the second time, they NEVER regained control, and Khan managed to steal the Genesis device on top of it. At that he was basically Blackbeard with a nuke.

The only one person in Enterprise's resume more dangerous than Khan would actually be Nero, but the Original Enterprise never had to face Nero. More to the point, Khan was NOT the most dangerous threat to the AT Enterprise -- again, that dubious honor goes to Nero, with Admiral Marcus as first runner-up.
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 05:15 AM   #77
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

The Enterprise has also been successfully hijacked by an android and a bunch of hippies.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 05:22 AM   #78
Agenda
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
The Enterprise has also been successfully hijacked by an android and a bunch of hippies.
"Khan was a fiction created the moment I was awoken by your Admiral Marcus to help him advance his cause, a smokescreen to conceal my true identity. They got rid of my groovy orange hair and now I'm pissed off. I am much worse than Khan. My name is... ADAM."
Agenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 05:25 AM   #79
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Yes, but both of those times the crew regained control on their own; the hippies never made (or threatened to make) the entire crew walk the space plank and never set the ship to self destruct when they didn't get their way.

And although the hippies did manage to steal a small civilian spacecraft earlier in the same episode, they did not steal a fully armed and operational battle sta... er starship and definitely didn't get their hands on a planet-killing WMD.
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 05:42 AM   #80
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

A Starship is a planet killing WMD.

IIRC, the crew only gained control after the hippies left. Similarly, the crew on regained control of the ship after defeating the androids planetside.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 05:50 AM   #81
M'Sharak
Definitely Herbert. Maybe.
 
M'Sharak's Avatar
 
Location: Terra Inlandia
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Agenda wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
The Enterprise has also been successfully hijacked by an android and a bunch of hippies.
"Khan was a fiction created the moment I was awoken by your Admiral Marcus to help him advance his cause, a smokescreen to conceal my true identity. They got rid of my groovy orange hair and now I'm pissed off. I am much worse than Khan. My name is... ADAM."
[Music FX: Killer space guitar solo]
__________________
The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but
that the lightning ain't distributed right.
— Mark Twain
M'Sharak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 08:20 AM   #82
Myko
Captain
 
Myko's Avatar
 
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Agenda wrote: View Post
"Khan was a fiction created the moment I was awoken by your Admiral Marcus to help him advance his cause, a smokescreen to conceal my true identity. They got rid of my groovy orange hair and now I'm pissed off. I am much worse than Khan. My name is... ADAM."
"Now Norman if you'd be a cool cat and... coordinate!"
__________________
Myko
Myko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 05:10 PM   #83
SantaSpock
Fleet Captain
 
SantaSpock's Avatar
 
Location: CommishSleer
View SantaSpock's Twitter Profile
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
The Enterprise has also been successfully hijacked by an android and a bunch of hippies.
More embarressing than dangerous
SantaSpock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 05:28 PM   #84
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
They treated the whole Khan thing way too comic book like. Khan is not the Joker, who is a constant enemy of Batman. Khan is just one of many antagonists, and the crew had to face a lot more problems and adventures.

They confronted V'Ger, the Whale Probe and stopped a Klingon-Federation conspiracy. All that was far more dangerous than Khan ever could haved dreamed of being.
Gotta agree with you on that. But it goes all the way back to TWOK and the fans going Boba Fett with Khan. Over the years Khan's rep has been inflated into him being the only true nemesis of the Enterprise crew. When the reality is that he was never much more of a threat than any of the other one of villains in the episodes.
I disagree. In the two times the Enterprise encountered Khan, he managed to successfully hijack not one but TWO Federation starships; the first time the crew regained control only due to the sudden face-turn of Khan's bottom bitch, and the second time, they NEVER regained control, and Khan managed to steal the Genesis device on top of it. At that he was basically Blackbeard with a nuke.

The only one person in Enterprise's resume more dangerous than Khan would actually be Nero, but the Original Enterprise never had to face Nero. More to the point, Khan was NOT the most dangerous threat to the AT Enterprise -- again, that dubious honor goes to Nero, with Admiral Marcus as first runner-up.
Yeah. Nero may not have been in the Romulan version of Mensa, but he set the bar damn high for future villains when he created a brand new timeline and then destroyed Vulcan in it, to boot.

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
The Enterprise has also been successfully hijacked by an android and a bunch of hippies.
More embarressing than dangerous
We reach.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 06:16 PM   #85
YellowSubmarine
Rear Admiral
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Speaking of hijackings, Spock's hijacking the Enterprise was flawless. Other hijackers should learn from him. The only one to do it better was Data. Barely. Integrity and morality aside, I'd rather have my chances against Khan than against Spock.
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)
YellowSubmarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 06:23 PM   #86
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
The Enterprise has also been successfully hijacked by an android and a bunch of hippies.
More embarressing than dangerous
Had, in TWOK, Kirk ordered to raise the shields as Saavik/regulations suggested, the Reliant wouldn't have been a problem for the Enterprise. Because Kirk + Spock + fully functional ship >>>> Khan + fully functional ship. They would have come up with the prefix code idea as well, but with full power.

So Khan's surprise attack could also count as pretty embarrassing.

It's kind of a wasted opportunity that in The Search for Spock Kirk did not have to answer for that.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 07:36 PM   #87
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
The Enterprise has also been successfully hijacked by an android and a bunch of hippies.
More embarressing than dangerous
Had, in TWOK, Kirk ordered to raise the shields as Saavik/regulations suggested, the Reliant wouldn't have been a problem for the Enterprise. Because Kirk + Spock + fully functional ship >>>> Khan + fully functional ship. They would have come up with the prefix code idea as well, but with full power.

So Khan's surprise attack could also count as pretty embarrassing.

It's kind of a wasted opportunity that in The Search for Spock Kirk did not have to answer for that.
With the exception of TMP and maybe TVH, the TOS movies seem predicated on the TOS crew and Starfleet being bumbling idiots. TWOK was the worse of the lot for this.

Fine Enterprise is the only ship in the sector--why the Enterprise is hanging around on a training cruise in a sector that has both a top secret research lab and Kirk's old girlfriend, who knows, but it is. Starfleet should have figured out something was up and sent out an extra ship or two to back up the Enterprise. "Could be nothing, garbled communications"...from your top secret research lab that's building a super torpedo that reformats planets. I think that's worth sending a cruiser or two to back up the outdated training ship full of cadets.

Kirk defies all common sense, even after a junior officer tells him they should raise shields; to top it off Spock calls her down on it. The Enterprise crippled, a lot of the TRAINEE crew wounded, power failing, Kirk decides to continue on to Regula instead--oh I don't know--hauling ass to a starbase or getting out of jamming range and getting a squadron chasing down Khan.
__________________
- SeerSGB -

Last edited by SeerSGB; October 8 2013 at 07:46 PM.
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 07:44 PM   #88
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

As long as it's been brought up, if we were going to make a list of the worst blunders ever by a Trek captain, Kirk not raising the ship's shields in TWOK would be in my top three. Everything that happens in the story after that, including Spock's death, unfolds because of that moment of conceit or hubris. Even when I watch TWOK today, I still keep thinking maybe this time Kirk's better judgement will kick in an he'll raise shields. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 08:06 PM   #89
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Fine Enterprise is the only ship in the sector--why the Enterprise is hanging around on a training cruise in a sector that has both a top secret research lab and Kirk's old girlfriend, who knows, but it is. Starfleet should have figured out something was up and sent out an extra ship or two to back up the Enterprise. "Could be nothing, garbled communications"...from your top secret research lab that's building a super torpedo that reformats planets. I think that's worth sending a cruiser or two to back up the outdated training ship full of cadets.
Actually, Regula-1 was a civilian laboratory, and there was nothing "top secret" about it. The work they were doing there was a secret, but only because Carol Marcus didn't tell anyone but Starfleet what they were up to (in a request for funding) and Starfleet didn't go blabbing it to everyone willy-nilly.

It would be like getting an angry phone from call an antarctic research base about somebody messing around with their polywell experiment; the commander who gets the job of investigating it winds up using a google search to figure out what a "polywell" actually is.

Kirk defies all common sense, even after a junior officer tells him they should raise shields; to top it off Spock calls her down on it. The Enterprise crippled, a lot of the TRAINEE crew wounded, power failing, Kirk decides to continue on to Regula instead--oh I don't know--hauling ass to a starbase or getting out of jamming range and getting a squadron chasing down Khan.
That's his style, dude. He did the same thing against Nero. And it worked -- both times.
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2013, 08:48 PM   #90
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Fine Enterprise is the only ship in the sector--why the Enterprise is hanging around on a training cruise in a sector that has both a top secret research lab and Kirk's old girlfriend, who knows, but it is. Starfleet should have figured out something was up and sent out an extra ship or two to back up the Enterprise. "Could be nothing, garbled communications"...from your top secret research lab that's building a super torpedo that reformats planets. I think that's worth sending a cruiser or two to back up the outdated training ship full of cadets.
Actually, Regula-1 was a civilian laboratory, and there was nothing "top secret" about it. The work they were doing there was a secret, but only because Carol Marcus didn't tell anyone but Starfleet what they were up to (in a request for funding) and Starfleet didn't go blabbing it to everyone willy-nilly.

It would be like getting an angry phone from call an antarctic research base about somebody messing around with their polywell experiment; the commander who gets the job of investigating it winds up using a google search to figure out what a "polywell" actually is.

Kirk defies all common sense, even after a junior officer tells him they should raise shields; to top it off Spock calls her down on it. The Enterprise crippled, a lot of the TRAINEE crew wounded, power failing, Kirk decides to continue on to Regula instead--oh I don't know--hauling ass to a starbase or getting out of jamming range and getting a squadron chasing down Khan.
That's his style, dude. He did the same thing against Nero. And it worked -- both times.
Regula - Again, makes no sense. Starfleet knows what they're building, know what it could do, send a trainee ship with no back up. It's more akin to the someone at the Manhattan Project calling Washington DC with a garbled call about someone demanding they hand over their research and Washington shrugging it off as a bad phone line.

Fine Enterprise is the only ship in the sector, but you send another cruiser or two to back up and make sure your plantary WMD is safe. (be fair, the only ship in the sector this is a running issue in Trek)

And we're still have no reason for Kirk to be cruising around Carol's neighborhood.

Kirk:

1) TWOK Kirk is supposedly an older, wiser, Admiral. Spock should have backed Saavik up, instead of calling her down for it. Hell, even McCoy didn't call Kirk out for being an idiot. Much less Scotty who had more of a right than anyone to rip Kirk a new one.

2) In Nu-Kirk's case, we actually have a reason:

(1) Nero is blowing the hell out of everything in his path and his hauling for Earth. He's already destroyed a fleet and one planet, and his packed to the teeth with weapons and is fucking nuts.

(2) We know the fleet is out of range cause they're on the other side of the Federation at the time this all goes down. They're kind of caught there by circumstances.

(3) Inexperience and ego..
__________________
- SeerSGB -
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.