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Old October 8 2013, 10:49 AM   #166
teacake
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Who would you rather be your captain if Janeway died, the ECH or Kim.

I'm thinking Kim would end up ruling by meeting, everyone else would basically tell him what to do. And that might work out reasonably well with everyone else including Tuvok. But all those times there wasn't time for a meeting and Kim was just utterly stumped and terrified.. might not go well.

But the ECH would do something very ill considered and ego driven when it came to crunch time and that wouldn't go well either. Still he seems to have more learning capacity so if they all didn't die during his first screw up it might kinda be okay.
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Old October 8 2013, 11:24 AM   #167
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

teacock wrote: View Post
What I don't understand is why this seems to genuinely bother Wang.
Some actors care about their characters. Just like George Takei wanted to be Captain, even if that meant that he would not be part of the Enterprise cast anymore.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:43 PM   #168
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

teacock wrote: View Post
Digific is my new hero.
Mine, too; really enjoying this line of inquiry.
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Old October 8 2013, 04:02 PM   #169
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I really enjoy Trek.FM's To the Journey podcast, but something that does somewhat bother me about the show is that the hosts have fallen into this mindset - one that I've also seen echoed by other Voyager fans - that emphasizes actual physical rank over 'role'. Harry not physically advancing in rank is unfortunate and is a major missed opportunity (particularly since other characters did in fact advance in rank over the course of the series), but if you actually look at the 'role' that Harry took on as the series progressed, the character was actually handled and dealt with much better than is the common perception.

Harry might've stayed an Ensign in rank for 7 seasons, but he didn't stay an Ensign in 'role', yet it's the rank thing that seems to be constantly brought up and focused on instead of it being the other way around, particularly since he seems to be the only character in any of the Star Trek series that this happens to.
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Old October 8 2013, 06:22 PM   #170
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
I really enjoy Trek.FM's To the Journey podcast, but something that does somewhat bother me about the show is that the hosts have fallen into this mindset - one that I've also seen echoed by other Voyager fans - that emphasizes actual physical rank over 'role'. Harry not physically advancing in rank is unfortunate and is a major missed opportunity (particularly since other characters did in fact advance in rank over the course of the series), but if you actually look at the 'role' that Harry took on as the series progressed, the character was actually handled and dealt with much better than is the common perception.
I disagree, VOY even devoted an entire episode of season 7 to showing us that Kim hadn't changed at all over the course of the series.
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Old October 8 2013, 06:24 PM   #171
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

^ Which episode would that be, JOOC?
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Old October 8 2013, 06:32 PM   #172
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
^ Which episode would that be, JOOC?
"NIGHTINGALE"
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Old October 8 2013, 06:37 PM   #173
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

^ Thanks. I looked at the synopsis for that episode and came away with a very different interpretation than you apparently did. All that episode tells us is that, despite everything he's experienced, Harry isn't ready for the 'responsibilities of command'; that doesn't automatically equate to his character not having grown.
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Old October 8 2013, 06:43 PM   #174
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
^ Thanks. I looked at the synopsis for that episode and came away with a very different interpretation than you apparently did. All that episode tells us is that, despite everything he's experienced, Harry isn't ready for the 'responsibilities of command'; that doesn't automatically equate to his character not having grown.
Have you watched it? Kim is shown to be just as green as he was in "Caretaker". There was literally zero growth over 7 years,
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Old October 8 2013, 06:58 PM   #175
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
^ Thanks. I looked at the synopsis for that episode and came away with a very different interpretation than you apparently did. All that episode tells us is that, despite everything he's experienced, Harry isn't ready for the 'responsibilities of command'; that doesn't automatically equate to his character not having grown.
It does suggest that the overall level of development over the course of seven seasons was less than significant. Indeed, it was very much in line with many shows of the era--Beverly Hills 90210 and Friends, e.g.--in which the details of the characters lives changed, but the fundamental challenges that they faced remained the same. Nightengale, indeed, might have been an interesting episode in season 2, showing an eager newbie what growth will be expected of him. Instead, it highlights how little he had learned, and that the producers aren't content to show us how he evolves. All it leaves is the impression that Kim is hopelessly naive.
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Old October 8 2013, 07:36 PM   #176
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Nightingale is the one where Janeway laughs at him when he claims that if he was in the AQ he would already be a Commander by now.

The final scene loses a bit without the Wang Filter (It's called ACTING!) but...

NEELIX: Welcome home!
KIM: It's good to be back.
NEELIX: So, what'll it be tonight? I have a light tula cheese soufflé or a zesty lasagne.
KIM: You know, Neelix? The truth is, I'm not sure.
NEELIX: I thought we talked about this. A Captain has to be deci
KIM: I'm not a Captain, Neelix. Not yet, anyway.
Which basically translates to "Fuck you, I'm a child!" after you add his shit eating grin and how he skipped away from this conversation.

Which is silly, considering Harry here is the same age Riker was in Encounter at Farpoint.
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Old October 8 2013, 07:55 PM   #177
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
JOOC
If that's an abbreviation for a 7th season episode title, I can't figure out which one it is. There's no title starting with J in the 7th season I can find.
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Old October 8 2013, 08:06 PM   #178
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Melakon wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
JOOC
If that's an abbreviation for a 7th season episode title, I can't figure out which one it is. There's no title starting with J in the 7th season I can find.
I believe it means "just out of curiosity", at least that's what google told me.
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Old October 8 2013, 08:17 PM   #179
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Nightingale is the one where Janeway laughs at him when he claims that if he was in the AQ he would already be a Commander by now.

The final scene loses a bit without the Wang Filter (It's called ACTING!) but...

NEELIX: Welcome home!
KIM: It's good to be back.
NEELIX: So, what'll it be tonight? I have a light tula cheese soufflé or a zesty lasagne.
KIM: You know, Neelix? The truth is, I'm not sure.
NEELIX: I thought we talked about this. A Captain has to be deci
KIM: I'm not a Captain, Neelix. Not yet, anyway.
Which basically translates to "Fuck you, I'm a child!" after you add his shit eating grin and how he skipped away from this conversation.

Which is silly, considering Harry here is the same age Riker was in Encounter at Farpoint.
To put in another way, Nog is on a faster track than Kim.
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Old October 8 2013, 08:41 PM   #180
Melakon
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

BruntRIP wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
JOOC
If that's an abbreviation for a 7th season episode title, I can't figure out which one it is. There's no title starting with J in the 7th season I can find.
I believe it means "just out of curiosity", at least that's what google told me.
Thanks, I never thought to look there. Since the context was regarding a Voyager episode, I didn't expect text-speak to be randomly thrown in there. I've never sent a text message or even owned a cell phone, so I don't always recognize what may be a standard abbreviation for those cases.
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