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Old October 8 2013, 02:00 AM   #436
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Vulture Capitalist wrote: View Post
Yes, abolish the Department of Energy - without even knowing what it does. Great plan.
That touches on a great point, really. Conservatives love to go on about what they'd abolish, given their druthers. It's interesting how they tend not to know anything about what it is they would get rid of. "I don't know what the government does, but I'm sure it's not good, so trash it!" It's like ignorance is a point of pride for some people.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:02 AM   #437
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

TheRedPill wrote: View Post
Vulture Capitalist wrote: View Post
Yes, abolish the Department of Energy - without even knowing what it does. Great plan.
That touches on a great point, really. Conservatives love to go on about what they'd abolish, given their druthers. It's interesting how they tend not to know anything about what it is they would get rid of. "I don't know what the government does, but I'm sure it's not good, so trash it!" It's like ignorance is a point of pride for some people.
"Close the government!"

::hours later::

"What?! Closing the Federal government includes federal parks and federal medical research/treatment facilities?!"
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Old October 8 2013, 02:19 AM   #438
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

All Yanks or any other right-winger has to do is Google or Wiki the Department of Energy. It's not a colossal blow-by-blow description the length of a Tolstoy novel, but the Wiki page on the DOE gives a pretty detailed and very good rundown of what the department does and the responsibilities and power it wields as a part of the executive branch of the federal government.

Most conservatives and libertarians who decry and despise these government departments don't give details of why they want them abolished, only that it's "more bloated Big Government bureaucracy," "it's not in the Constitution" and so forth and so on. It all boils down to government = bad thing and not in the Constitution = even worse thing. Little more than that. It's just partisan bumper sticker slogan politics for people who live on sound bites.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:22 AM   #439
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Ghouleddie74 wrote: View Post
All Yanks or any other right-winger has to do is Google or Wiki the Department of Energy. It's not a colossal blow-by-blow description the length of a Tolstoy novel, but the Wiki page on the DOE gives a pretty detailed and very good rundown of what the department does and the responsibilities and power it wields as a part of the executive branch of the federal government.

Most conservatives and libertarians who decry and despise these government departments don't give details of why they want them abolished, only that it's "more bloated Big Government bureaucracy," "it's not in the Constitution" and so forth and so on. It all boils down to government = bad thing and not in the Constitution = even worse thing. Little more than that. It's just partisan bumper sticker slogan politics for people who live on sound bites.
It all boils down to "get rid of all government, except the parts we like."
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Old October 8 2013, 02:24 AM   #440
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Always. Government is the enemy of the people!*

*Except for those parts that aren't and help me become wealthy and powerful and expand my personal influence while in office.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:26 AM   #441
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Ghouleddie74 wrote: View Post
Always. Government is the enemy of the people!*

*Except for those parts that aren't and help me become wealthy and powerful and expand my personal influence while in office.
As I posted above, the furlough is a good example of this and why the House keeps trying to push for partial reinstatements of certain aspects of the Federal Government they, apparently, didn't realize would go away when, you know, it stopped getting funded.
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Old October 8 2013, 03:29 AM   #442
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

It is amazing people call for the end of government departments they know absolutely nothing about.

Fox News and Conservative radio have to be the two worst things to ever happen to this country. Not because they offer differing viewpoints but because they don't actually take the time to educate their viewers/listeners on what impact various actions will have. It is pretty depressing.
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Old October 8 2013, 03:30 AM   #443
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

They aren't about education, they're about offering ideological support and affirmation to people whose beliefs are rejected and reviled by the rest of society.
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Old October 8 2013, 07:46 AM   #444
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Well everyone is entitled to thier own views in a Democracy even if we disagree with them. The issue with the case of the budget bill or CR in the USA is that instead of being grown up about it and putting a clean bill before for the House of Representives and voting on it like adults. Some members appear to be acting like petulant children screaming I want it, I want it (defunding of the PPACA).

Now I haven't been a parent, but you do those of you with children always give into your children when they are having a temper tandrum?
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Old October 8 2013, 11:52 AM   #445
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

MacLeod wrote: View Post

Now I haven't been a parent, but you do those of you with children always give into your children when they are having a temper tandrum?
Problem is that in most households the children don't control the cash flow. As long as the Tea Party has enough seats to block spending bills, we have to pay attention to them.
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Old October 8 2013, 01:25 PM   #446
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yanks wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
Eliminate the Department of Education. The Founding Father are still rolling in their graves. The State can handle education.
Good grief. Isn't education bad enough in Red States?

Yanks wrote: View Post
No, I have no idea... please explain it to me.
You lose the election, you don't get to decide shit. It's pretty straightforward, really.
I can't wait until the Dems are in the minority party again...
Recent polling suggest that won't be soon. Keep fighting the good fight. The Know-Nothings did the same thing.
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Old October 8 2013, 01:44 PM   #447
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

I just hope this is worth it to the Republicans. They've drawn up a playbook where any fringe group with enough seats in the House will be able to shutdown the government.

If the situation was reversed the Republicans would be screaming about how the Democrats are disrespecting democracy and the United States.
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Old October 8 2013, 04:16 PM   #448
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

The Tea Party is fighting this one battle at a time, thinking that's how they will win the war, but they're wrong. They forced a shutdown--a victory of sorts for them. They may force a default--another victory, in their twisted view. But their actions have hurt and will continue to hurt the country. The Tea Party strongholds are a lost cause, so the best the Republicans can hope for is to band together and ignore the 10-15% of their party that's totally lost it, even if it means some of them get primaried out of their seats as a result.

At some point, they have to put the good of the country first, even if it costs them their jobs.

From where I'm standing, there's basically no way for moderate Republicans to win here, and the Tea Party is doomed in the long-run, too.
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Old October 8 2013, 04:49 PM   #449
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Yanks wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
Compromise is about both sides not getting exactly what they want, have the Republican's placed anything on the table that they are willing to compromise on in return for the Democrat's compromising on the PPACA?
Yes they have.

Four of them that weren't even considered by the Senate or POTUS.

The last just had delaying the ACA mandate for one year just like the businesses received.

But that's just unreasonable I guess.
It's not compromise, that's for sure.

If I make a demand, and then lessen my demand, is that compromise? It's part of compromise, but not all of it. It can't just be that I get less of what I want; I also have to give up something else I want in exchange for getting anything at all.

The fact that you think those measures represent "compromise" is part of the problem.

REAL compromise might be something like "delay Obamacare 1 year in exchange for universal background checks on gun sales." Or something to that effect. If Republicans want concessions on the ACA, which is central to the Democrat platform, they need to be willing to make concessions on something equally central to their platform in exchange. Since they don't want to do that, they're trying to hold our credit rating hostage instead.

It looks like the Democrats will only accept exactly what they want.
Democrats have been willing to compromise from the start, on some things. If the ACA is not one of them, tough shit. The law has passed all the normal democratic tests, and now it's time to see how well it does in the light of day. If it really does fail, it'll be a lot easier to get rid of it in a few years. If it succeeds, the Republicans will look like fools for opposing it. (That's really what they're afraid of.)

But the faith & credit of this nation is not and never again should be a political bargaining chip, and it is entirely proper to refuse to negotiate as long as it is under threat.
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Last edited by Lindley; October 8 2013 at 05:05 PM.
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Old October 8 2013, 06:03 PM   #450
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Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

BillJ wrote: View Post
It is amazing people call for the end of government departments they know absolutely nothing about.
Like when they shut down the government and then complain that certain government run things are shut down?
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