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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old October 8 2013, 05:20 AM   #16
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: On making references: For or Against

I'm all for references being made so long as they make sense and aren't just there to squeeze continuity into a new shape. Any references however should be from what is canon, about the only thing I can think of that I'd want mentioned from the books is the Andorian sexes and the slow extinction of their species.

The rest, meh.
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Old October 8 2013, 11:07 AM   #17
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: On making references: For or Against

Ketrick wrote: View Post
Well, since it seems we're generally agreed that references would be ok as long as they make sense and don't require knowing anything about where they came from for the plot or subplot to work, I'll ask this related question in addition to the opening question: So, what references to the novels, comics, or STO would y'all like to see in such a new series and what references or type of references would y'all never want to see?
Since it's the novels that get to really flesh out the Trek universe, I'd like to see their species' backstories used. The Vulcans, Romulans, Klingons, Breen, Cardassians etc all have rich cultures which never come across on TV or film. If you're gonna make an offhand comment about them, you might as well take a detail from there.

It's worth pointing out here that the new movies referenced old novels (Kirk's parents' names, Vulcan lore), current comics (the "Mudd incident" and the dead tribble) and the recent videogame (Gorn octuplets)
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Old October 8 2013, 05:11 PM   #18
Ketrick
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Re: On making references: For or Against

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Ketrick wrote: View Post
Well, since it seems we're generally agreed that references would be ok as long as they make sense and don't require knowing anything about where they came from for the plot or subplot to work, I'll ask this related question in addition to the opening question: So, what references to the novels, comics, or STO would y'all like to see in such a new series and what references or type of references would y'all never want to see?
Since it's the novels that get to really flesh out the Trek universe, I'd like to see their species' backstories used. The Vulcans, Romulans, Klingons, Breen, Cardassians etc all have rich cultures which never come across on TV or film. If you're gonna make an offhand comment about them, you might as well take a detail from there.

It's worth pointing out here that the new movies referenced old novels (Kirk's parents' names, Vulcan lore), current comics (the "Mudd incident" and the dead tribble) and the recent videogame (Gorn octuplets)
I definitely agree with you on that and you make a good point about the new movies. In fact, I kind of had what the new movies do on my mind when I made this thread. What I wasn't sure about was if many would like the idea of making canon a Captain Mackenzie Calhoun or elements of Vanguard or stuff like that.

Last edited by Ketrick; October 8 2013 at 10:05 PM.
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Old October 8 2013, 08:29 PM   #19
Kelthaz
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Re: On making references: For or Against

Ketrick wrote: View Post
Something else I personally think would be cool is if there were an exchange in a new series that would go something like this:

"They're like the Furies, Captain? I don't see how they're similar to the figures from Greek myth."-a Lieutenant

"No. I'm talking about a group of aliens that first invaded back in Captain Kirk's time and later during Captain Picard's time. I'm surprised you've never heard of them before."-the Captain
No. That's horrible. It's an inorganic and awkward exposition dump. That is not how you do references.
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Old October 8 2013, 09:17 PM   #20
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: On making references: For or Against

If a TNG-era Trek had a tattooed, red skinned alien in the background it could be a Thallonian. If there's a display graphic listing nearby ships, it could have the USS Excalibur NCC-26517-A on it. If something's incredibly tough, someone could say, "That's tougher than a Brikar's hide."

Those are the kind of New Frontier references that I think would work well. If the next movie mentioned "Vanguard station" in the same kind of way Regula One got a shout-out in STXI (when assignments were being called out in the academy hangar), that would work well, too. Little things that make fans' ears prick up and think, "I know that!", but not things shoved down our throats.
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Old October 8 2013, 10:12 PM   #21
Ketrick
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Re: On making references: For or Against

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
If a TNG-era Trek had a tattooed, red skinned alien in the background it could be a Thallonian. If there's a display graphic listing nearby ships, it could have the USS Excalibur NCC-26517-A on it. If something's incredibly tough, someone could say, "That's tougher than a Brikar's hide."

Those are the kind of New Frontier references that I think would work well. If the next movie mentioned "Vanguard station" in the same kind of way Regula One got a shout-out in STXI (when assignments were being called out in the academy hangar), that would work well, too. Little things that make fans' ears prick up and think, "I know that!", but not things shoved down our throats.
I like those ideas. Though, some of the examples you gave in the first paragraph wouldn't necessarily have to be specific to the TNG era. You could have a Thallonian in the background in a series set in the 25th or 26th century and it could still work.
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Old October 15 2013, 05:35 AM   #22
FKnight
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Re: On making references: For or Against

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
ARCHER: Someday my people are going to come up with some sort of a doctrine, something that tells us what we can and can't do out here, should and shouldn't do. But until somebody tells me that they've drafted that directive I'm going to have to remind myself every day that we didn't come out here to play God.

...it treated viewers like complete idiots who needed their hands held and to be told, "Look! He's talking about the Prime Directive!"

Another cringe-worthy example was "The Augments", where Arik Soong jumps up and down waving a big sign marked "TNG REFERENCE HERE! HE'S TALKING ABOUT DATA!"

SOONG: I've been thinking. Perfecting humanity may not be possible. Cybernetics. Artificial lifeforms.

ARCHER: Good-bye, Doctor.

SOONG: I doubt I'll finish the work myself. Might take a generation or two.
This is the kind of crap that irked the hell out of me when I'd watch. And the hilarious/sad part is that the writers thought they were being clever and subtle and completely failing to the power of 10. About as subtle as an anvil in a cartoon. Horrible.
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Old October 16 2013, 02:19 PM   #23
RandyS
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Re: On making references: For or Against

Big Boo wrote: View Post
I'm all for the next series referencing to previous series.
Me too. Nothing wrong with it at all.
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Old October 16 2013, 09:29 PM   #24
R. Star
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Re: On making references: For or Against

FKnight wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
ARCHER: Someday my people are going to come up with some sort of a doctrine, something that tells us what we can and can't do out here, should and shouldn't do. But until somebody tells me that they've drafted that directive I'm going to have to remind myself every day that we didn't come out here to play God.

...it treated viewers like complete idiots who needed their hands held and to be told, "Look! He's talking about the Prime Directive!"

Another cringe-worthy example was "The Augments", where Arik Soong jumps up and down waving a big sign marked "TNG REFERENCE HERE! HE'S TALKING ABOUT DATA!"

SOONG: I've been thinking. Perfecting humanity may not be possible. Cybernetics. Artificial lifeforms.

ARCHER: Good-bye, Doctor.

SOONG: I doubt I'll finish the work myself. Might take a generation or two.
This is the kind of crap that irked the hell out of me when I'd watch. And the hilarious/sad part is that the writers thought they were being clever and subtle and completely failing to the power of 10. About as subtle as an anvil in a cartoon. Horrible.
That reference was rather hamfisted I'll agree. Though it amused me his thought process was, "Humanity can't be perfected, screw it, I'm building robots."
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