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Old October 8 2013, 02:07 AM   #31
sttngfan1701d
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

Yoda wrote: View Post
Uhh, the episode is 4x03. There was some violence and dragging off, followed by sounds while the camera is pointed elsewhere. And some after-the-fact corner cowering. I'd probably tend towards avoiding the last 8 minutes or so of the episode, could easily be upsetting IMO.
Yeah. While it's not near the level of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo in terms of graphicness, if you think you're going to be upset, cut out of the episode from the point Anna leaves the opera singing.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:12 AM   #32
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

Thanks for the warnings. Since just your descriptions -- which I asked for and expected -- are making me shake, I'd better skip the whole episode first time 'round. Shit.

I wouldn't dream of reading or watching any of The Girl with...series.

Oh! Is that the episode with Kiri Te Kawana? The opera singer? I'll have to watch at least that part eventually!
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Old October 8 2013, 02:18 AM   #33
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

Kreacher wrote: View Post
I should've known better than to look at this thread again, but I'm actually glad that I did. I've got two questions:

Which episode is this? And is the rape on-screen or something we just know about in the background? The distinction is important for someone with PTSD after being raped.

Thanks.
This came with a warning about graphic scenes before the original broadcast so you should probably avoid it. As others have said, the cut-off point is when Anna leaves the performance of the singer to take some aspirin for her headache.
You won't miss much of the other plots of that episode, except for Gregson (Edith's lover) winning Robert's approval by winning back the IOUs from that cardplayer guy (who, as it turns out, was cheating).

I thought the editing was kind of awkward there, by the way. On the one hand, we have the very distressing scene of Anna being raped while on the other, it's intercut by beautiful music, everyone being happy listening to it, a happy end in regards to the gambling debts and Robert telling Cora that he likes Gregson.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:18 AM   #34
sttngfan1701d
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

Kreacher wrote: View Post
Thanks for the warnings. Since just your descriptions -- which I asked for and expected -- are making me shake, I'd better skip the whole episode first time 'round. Shit.

I wouldn't dream of reading or watching any of The Girl with...series.

Oh! Is that the episode with Kiri Te Kawana? The opera singer? I'll have to watch at least that part eventually!
I don't think you have to skip the whole thing. Most of the episode the guy is just acting like a confident douchebag like most guys do when they try to chat up women who are not interested. The way he turns violent is very sudden and jarring at the very end.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:23 AM   #35
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

Count Zero wrote: View Post

I thought the editing was kind of awkward there, by the way. On the one hand, we have the very distressing scene of Anna being raped while on the other, it's intercut by beautiful music, everyone being happy listening to it, a happy end in regards to the gambling debts and Robert telling Cora that he likes Gregson.
On a related note, isn't the editing on this show always awkward? I mean, even going back to season one there have always been these odd and jarring cuts, which often even cut off music cues.

I wonder if that's some sort of stylistic choice.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:24 AM   #36
Count Zero
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
I don't think you have to skip the whole thing. Most of the episode the guy is just acting like a confident douchebag like most guys do when they try to chat up women who are not interested. The way he turns violent is very sudden and jarring at the very end.
It's quite a typical situation for rape, though. Some men just can't accept no as an answer. I guess that was even more common back then than it is today.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:27 AM   #37
Tora Ziyal
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

And you think I'd enjoy watching him chatting someone up, knowing ahead of time what he's about to do, even if I'm planning to turn it off?! When I've already said that just reading the descriptions is making me shaky? Sheesh.

Some day I will watch that episode, at least the first part of it. After the series is over and I've seen all the other episodes.

(Oh, sorry, that was to sttngfan1701D in #34.)
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Old October 8 2013, 02:37 AM   #38
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

Maybe someone will make a fan vid with just the opera stuff from the episode so you can watch it, too.

Oh, this is also the episode where they're introducing Mary's new suitor (whose valet is the rapist, though) but you won't have missed much on that front if you skip the episode.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:44 AM   #39
Tora Ziyal
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

Now that you mention it, I bet the opera part will end up on YouTube. Thanks.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:45 AM   #40
sttngfan1701d
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

Kreacher wrote: View Post
And you think I'd enjoy watching him chatting someone up, knowing ahead of time what he's about to do, even if I'm planning to turn it off?! When I've already said that just reading the descriptions is making me shaky? Sheesh.
Sheesh what? No need to take your anxiety out on me. I didn't mean anything by that comment and in no way was it meant to belittle YOUR experience, so simmer down. All I meant was that for most of the episode, there is no suggestion of the end result.
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Old October 8 2013, 02:48 AM   #41
dg1379
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

It did come out of nowhere. He hits her when she pushes him away at first, but....I was pretty angry watching thay scene unfold. Wish I didnt make my comment before.
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Old October 8 2013, 03:50 AM   #42
Tora Ziyal
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

Sttngfan, I understand that you didn't consciously "mean anything."

However, you and Yoda had already mentioned that only the last part of the episode was problematic. And I had considered that before concluding that I'm not going to watch it at all. So when you brought it up again after I made my decision, you were repeating yourself and using language ("I don't think you have to skip the whole thing...") that said you thought you knew better than I what it is that I need.

We all have fun here arguing back and forth about the pros and cons of all sorts of things. But when someone asks for some simple info on a very traumatic topic (which you did just fine, the first time), that is not the time to keep pressing your point.

Last edited by Tora Ziyal; October 8 2013 at 04:05 AM.
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Old October 8 2013, 05:12 AM   #43
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

People on tumblr are also saying that Mary was raped back in series one when she slept with the Turkish man.
Did I miss judge the scene because I did not see it has rape?
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Old October 8 2013, 05:31 AM   #44
Tora Ziyal
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

It was marketed as seduction and a lot of people called it that. The only person I've discussed it with before felt it was kind of borderline. IMO, she said "no" way too clearly for it to be seduction. She said no when he kissed her in the hallway; she said no when he showed up in her room; she said no repeatedly when he got in her bed. And she gave off no mixed vibes to confuse him (I was really looking for that; I wanted it to be seduction). Yes, she did eventually enjoy it, but that's irrelevant. I'm glad to hear other people are calling it rape, too.

Last edited by Tora Ziyal; October 8 2013 at 05:45 AM.
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Old October 8 2013, 07:50 AM   #45
sttngfan1701d
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Re: Downton Abbey ITV1 22nd September 9pm

That scene in season 1 was borderline, yes. The problem is that you have this view in society (which IS partly perpetuated by women who admit this) that sometimes women say "no" despite still physically *wanting* it. Women who want to be "taken" by a man, who aren't sure at first but give in to the passion. I always roll my eyes when I hear a woman say that stuff because it muddies the waters. I've had too many friends and loved ones raped that I think the "no that's really a yes in disguise" thing gives men license to push the boundaries. That scene reminded me of the scene in the first Rocky film. That's never sat well with me, either.
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