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Old October 7 2013, 04:22 PM   #31
Bad Thoughts
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Well, short of inventing a new artificial language, someone has to be favored in this case, especially since 95% of the human population do not speak English as their first language
Or maybe it was not a case of favourtism per say, rather one language (i.e. English) establsihed itself as the lingua franca/de facto language of at least Starfleet.
I might not be deliberate favoritism, but in the end some people will end up being favored in any case. Also, languages don't establish themselves. People do.
One case: Aviation English. English established itself as the worldwide standard among pilots, mostly because of the prominence of English speaking aviators and air traffic. However, being able to operate a plane in English doesn't equate with knowing English conversationally, or English displacing other languages in other areas.
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Old October 7 2013, 04:28 PM   #32
iguana_tonante
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Also, languages don't establish themselves. People do.
One case: Aviation English. English established itself as the worldwide standard among pilots,
Uhm...

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
mostly because of the prominence of English speaking aviators and air traffic.
QED.
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Old October 7 2013, 04:35 PM   #33
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Also, languages don't establish themselves. People do.
One case: Aviation English. English established itself as the worldwide standard among pilots,
Uhm...

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
mostly because of the prominence of English speaking aviators and air traffic.
QED.
Then we agree?
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Old October 7 2013, 04:38 PM   #34
iguana_tonante
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Since you basically gave an example that supported my original comment, yes. You initial wording had me thinking that we were offering a counterexample.
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Old October 9 2013, 09:51 PM   #35
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Mr. B wrote: View Post
French is a dying language today.
YEAH!!! Suck it Madame Harper! - High School French aside, it would make sense if the Federation adopted a standard language, be it English or something else.
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Old October 10 2013, 02:02 AM   #36
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

I figure anytime you see someone use a non-Western-US accent (that isn't from the Western US), they are speaking English; otherwise, UT: folks like Picard, Papa Sisko, the Rohzenkos, etc. were speaking English, as those accents come from regional pronunciation. Possible exception for the founding Fed races (especially Vulcans), and the occasional Klingon, since we see them speaking English before UT was invented. Though maybe there was a primitive one in use by then, which didn't work completely by magic, since the Enterprise crew was often able to communicate in places that would probably never heard a word of any Earth language, let alone English, though not always (ie, it was already programmed with several known languages).

Also, it seems the UT works at least with AoE - in LGM once the Ferengi got their UT's working, everyone was able to understand each other, and it made it look like they were speaking English to the A51 guys.

Biggest problem with UT as shown on the show was Klingon. Why would they randomly have Klingon words get through the UT? It's not like all of it was untranslatable, if any. And I think at least a few times it happens, the Feddie characters don't know what's going on, like the UT stopped working.

This could also explain some of the lazy cultural stuff naming - stuff like the SPACE fleas, or SPACE pudding, etc.
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Old October 10 2013, 11:36 PM   #37
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Would the UT translate common foreign words. Klingon or Vulcan words that are common and known. Like here we know "fiesta," "cardiovascular," and "dinosaur." Would those get translated?
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Old October 10 2013, 11:41 PM   #38
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

True, the UT might not trnaslate words from alien languages that have made their way into say English. After all even today English likes to borrow words from other languages.
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Old October 11 2013, 05:04 AM   #39
Nerys Myk
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

It's English's greatest strength and weakness.
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Old October 14 2013, 03:08 PM   #40
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

TheRoyalFamily wrote: View Post
I figure anytime you see someone use a non-Western-US accent (that isn't from the Western US), they are speaking English; otherwise, UT.
Maybe everyone can just set the UT to an accent of his choice?
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Old October 14 2013, 03:25 PM   #41
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

^Which may explain why Chekov believes everything is Russian in origin.
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Old October 14 2013, 03:28 PM   #42
Alidar Jarok
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
T'Pol likely was actually speaking English given UTs weren't as common back in the day.
She specifically says she's speaking English in Broken Bow (something like "I was instructed to speak English") after Hoshi tried to speak Vulcan to her.

I don't think we can extrapolate the extent that everyone speaks English on Earth, but it might be that English is advantageous to learn in Starfleet. I don't think it's ever entirely possible to reconcile the random times Klingon shows up, but I'd suggest that Worf is speaking English rather than being translated. Quark, on the other hand, apparently speaks no English and I suspect that the Bajorans (and Odo) are the same way.

Of course, it's a plot device done for convenience 95% of the time, so I wouldn't think too much about it.
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Old October 15 2013, 08:08 AM   #43
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Actually I think it would be save to assume that Odo speaks Cardassian, since he "grew up" in the lab of a cardassian scientist.
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Old October 15 2013, 12:35 PM   #44
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

FreddyE wrote: View Post
Actually I think it would be save to assume that Odo speaks Cardassian, since he "grew up" in the lab of a cardassian scientist.
If not, he is an officer of the Cardassian court, suggesting a higher degree of familiarity with Cardassian practices (including language).
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Old October 15 2013, 01:04 PM   #45
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Re: State of Languages in the Federation

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
trash80 wrote: View Post
Unspeakable wrote: View Post
There was a episode of Farscape where everyone's translator microbes stopped working, none of them spoke any of the other's languages.
This seems like an obvious plot for a Star Trek episode, its strange how its never happened.
I once pitched a Voyager ep in which the UT broke down and suddenly Neelix couldn't talk to anyone. Alas, it didn't sell, but maybe I can recycle it as short story or subplot someday . . . ?
There actually was an episode (the two-parter "Basics") where the crew was without UT, but Neelix and Kes were somehow still able to communicate normally. Though in-universe I suppose it's possible that they both learned to speak perfect English by that point. Still, sloppy writing.
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