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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old October 6 2013, 12:46 AM   #136
DigificWriter
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

^ I don't see how my above statement supports the idea that the episodes could be randomly ordered and still have things make sense, as everything I've been posting/talking about demonstrates that although episodes were aired randomly, there was in fact an order that they ought to have been aired in.
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Old October 6 2013, 01:22 AM   #137
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
If Voyager had been aired more or less in production order (except in instances where story order dictated otherwise), the perception that it lacked continuity wouldn't be as prevalent.
Is that really the case, though? I know airing episodes out of order meant a *few* things got jumbled, but for the most part my impression has always been that the difference between broadcast order and production order wasn't much.
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Old October 6 2013, 01:50 AM   #138
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
There was a reference to Projections.

They referenced the gaping hole in "reality" where it used to be.
Must have been that hole Harry fell through and died during "Deadlock".
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Old October 6 2013, 02:03 AM   #139
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Harvey wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
If Voyager had been aired more or less in production order (except in instances where story order dictated otherwise), the perception that it lacked continuity wouldn't be as prevalent.
Is that really the case, though? I know airing episodes out of order meant a *few* things got jumbled, but for the most part my impression has always been that the difference between broadcast order and production order wasn't much.
Viewing them out of order jumbled barely anything, almost nothing up because there wasn't almost any continuity demanding a strict viewing order, baring the introduction or exit of a character or the addition/removal of a new set or prop (I spent half a page listing that shit precisely.)

Production order and airing order might not have been so different, but Voyager was eventually made for the casual viewer and they could have watched seasons backwards for all that was expected of them.

They were able to miss three weeks, or a year, because they needed to get drunk with their friend/s, or they could watch a couple VHS tapes from last season for the first time and it blends in with everything they are familiar within the present.

The casual viewer had no respect for their televisions.
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Old October 6 2013, 03:16 PM   #140
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I wanted to mention Elogium and the problems with airing it as part of Season 2, as well as the problems it causes as-produced.

Elogium doesn't really match up with normal Human female gestation - especially once you throw Fury into the mix (I'll get to that in a bit) - but it's far less problematic if it's restored to its proper place in Season 1, where it follows Projections (in which The Doctor indicates that it's been 6 months since the events of Caretaker). It is possible for women to not realize they're pregnant until they actually go into labor, and some of the reasons for this phenomenon occurring are stress, a lack of typical pregnancy-related side effects, and/or the baby being 'inactive', and I can very much see any or all of these things having happened to Ensign Wildman, which would explain why she didn't find out she was pregnant - or really 'show' - until she was 6 months along.

Stardates notwithstanding, I can also very easily see Deadlock taking place within 3 months of Elogium, which would actually do away with the apparent problems with Sam Wildman's gestation entirely.

As for Fury, I don't see anything in that episode that precludes its events from constituting a different timeline where Wildman's pregnancy was in fact doubled because of the baby's Ktarian genes.

I personally think Fury causes more problems than it fixes, and would therefore be inclined to think of Wildman's pregnancy actually being fairly normal and one or a combination of the 'outside factors' I mentioned above being the explanation for why she only learned she was pregnant 6 months into said pregnancy, but to each their own.
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Old October 7 2013, 05:48 AM   #141
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I don't see what the big problem with them not referring to the Doctor's memory loss so much, I mean TOS had Uhura's memories get wiped by Nomad and she's fine by next episode.
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Old October 7 2013, 06:23 AM   #142
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

^ TOS was wholly episodic, whereas Voyager had a certain degree of serialization and need for continuity inherent in its very premise and that was belied by the producers and network's deciding that they wanted it to be able to be broadcast in an episodic fashion for syndication.

I said in my last post that I didn't think Ensign Wildman's pregnancy needed the explanation introduced in S6's Fury to retroactively explain the discrepancies in her gestation period, but I've just been proven wrong by Non-Sequitur.

Even so, Elogium being aired as part of Season 1 would've still made the whole situation work better even though it's not actually possible to look at Ensign Wildman's gestation period being normal the way that I talked about in my last post.
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Old October 7 2013, 09:18 AM   #143
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Anwar wrote: View Post
I don't see what the big problem with them not referring to the Doctor's memory loss so much, I mean TOS had Uhura's memories get wiped by Nomad and she's fine by next episode.
Two points. First, you're comparing a series made in the mid-sixties with one made in the mid-to-late nineties, which isn't fair or particularly useful. Second, I don't think many fans would refer to the way that 'The Changeling' completely glosses over the fact that Uhura has lost all her memories as a virtue of the episode.

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
TOS was wholly episodic, whereas Voyager had a certain degree of serialization and need for continuity inherent in its very premise and that was belied by the producers and network's deciding that they wanted it to be able to be broadcast in an episodic fashion for syndication.
I wouldn't argue too strongly against your assertion that Star Trek is "wholly episodic," but I do think it had some of the same occurrences of what might be described as "minor continuity" that you are using to praise Star Trek: Voyager.

-- In "By Any Other Name," for example, Kirk both mentions that the Enterprise has already visited the Galactic Barrier (a reference to the events of "Where No Man Has Gone Before") and asks Spock to use the same trick he used to fool the guards on Eminiar VII (a reference to the events of "A Taste of Armageddon").

-- In "Turnabout Intruder," Kirk directly mentions the events of both "The Tholian Web" and "The Empath." General Order Four from "The Menagerie" is also referenced (although the script gets the number wrong).

It has been suggested that TOS could be viewed in any order. Like VOY, that's not *quite* true, because of minor continuity, but the fact that both series were broadcast out of order without any viewer difficulty demonstrates their episodic nature.
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Old October 7 2013, 10:18 AM   #144
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Have you ever heard of Crusade?

Babylon 5 spinoff.

13 episodes.

Halfway through the run, the crew changes uniforms.

A massive la de da as the spacemen get project runwayed.

Network didn't notice this as they shuffled the episode order to force the most "exciting" stories to the front of the sample because... The doomed SOB was going to be cancelled anways no matter how hard they retooled it.



This may have been why Berman turned down the used uniforms when DS9 folded?
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Old October 7 2013, 06:06 PM   #145
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

It's funny you should mention Crusade because, as I've been watching Voyager and posting in this thread, I've come to the conclusion that there are a good deal of similarities between it and Crusade, not just in terms of premise, but also in terms of being quite serialized despite being treated 'episodically'.

As for Voyager not changing uniforms, it's never been something that's ever bothered me, as there was never any storyline imperative for it to happen, nor do I think there should've been one created.

I did a search to see if I could find a real-world explanation for why Voyager didn't use the First Contact uniforms for its final few seasons and saw someone - on Star Trek.Com's forums, of all places - call the lack of uniform change a continuity error, which I find to be a rather silly assertion.
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Old October 7 2013, 07:18 PM   #146
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

After the movie shut down, DS9 got the new uniforms, and Voyager got the Borg stuff.

It was a fair split.

That would make those uniforms third hand no matter how well you cleaned them if Berman told the Season 6 cast of Voyager that it was this that they are now wearing.

Although Admiral Janeway's future uniform had been seen on DS9 the Visitor and TNG All Good Things... If you harvested DNA from the gusset of that costume to make a clone, it's unsure whether you would be growing a Farrel, McFadden or Mulgrew baby till after she had been poured out of its test tube.
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Old October 7 2013, 08:12 PM   #147
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
. . .If you harvested DNA from the gusset of that costume to make a clone, it's unsure whether you would be growing a Farrel, McFadden or Mulgrew baby till after she had been poured out of its test tube.
Sort of like running it through the Tuvixizer and getting Jaderlyn Janedaxer.
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Old October 7 2013, 11:48 PM   #148
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I haven't heard that word gusset in years.
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Old October 8 2013, 01:37 AM   #149
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Guy probably owns an exclusive tailor shop on Savile Row.
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Old October 8 2013, 01:42 AM   #150
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Owned by a sailor on skid row possibly?
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