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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 5 2013, 08:04 PM   #61
SeerSGB
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The whole Khan thing is somehow breaking the 4th wall for me. Khan is only in this film because somehow the writers think that "the franchise demands it". And that awful reveal with "My name is... Khan." (like he expected Kirk and Spock to have watched Space Seed and TWOK), and then that awful "KHHAAAAN!" scream that simply would not be there had TWOK never been made...

Similar Kirk's promotion from Cadet to Captain in the first film. The only reason for that was out-universe, because the writers thought the "franchise demanded" that the film ends with Kirk being Captain.

It's that market research style of writing that I really don't like.
Skipping the bit about Kirk's promotion: A some point it stops being beating a dead horse and becomes necrophilia

Agree--a little--on Quinto's version of the scream. Not cause it's there, but because it felt restained and he didn't sell it.

As for "My name is Khan" - He probably assumed everyone knew who he was. He's Khan, he's walking, talking, ego. Ego demands that the mere mention of his name would still carry weight centuries after his disappearance.
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Old October 5 2013, 11:25 PM   #62
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

The movie Into Darkness is apparently killing in Blu-ray releases?
The movie that made over a billion in the box office and nearly triple the gross of Into Darkness?
Didn't Iron Man 3 tease a bigger Iron Man enemy being in the film, and a theory that people have come up with is that this was just a considerably reimaging of said enemy?
I'm not sure where this is going any longer, so I'll just say that my original post was a simple jest. The idea that the villain could have been someone Kirk randomly bumped into in a hallway years ago reminded me of Iron Man 3. I thought the comparison was funny, so I posted my thought.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
As for "My name is Khan" - He probably assumed everyone knew who he was. He's Khan, he's walking, talking, ego. Ego demands that the mere mention of his name would still carry weight centuries after his disappearance.
And isn't Khan supposed to be the Hitler of the Star Trek universe? If Adolf Hitler were to reappear and announce himself in front of us, we would all know who he was and be a little freaked out by it. Everyone knew who Khan was in Space Seed, so they would in this universe too.
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Old October 6 2013, 12:05 AM   #63
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
And isn't Khan supposed to be the Hitler of the Star Trek universe? If Adolf Hitler were to reappear and announce himself in front of us, we would all know who he was and be a little freaked out by it. Everyone knew who Khan was in Space Seed, so they would in this universe too.
Nah, he the "best" of a bad lot. More like Francisco Franco, I guess.
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Old October 7 2013, 12:24 AM   #64
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
As for "My name is Khan" - He probably assumed everyone knew who he was. He's Khan, he's walking, talking, ego. Ego demands that the mere mention of his name would still carry weight centuries after his disappearance.
I could buy this: it's probably along the lines of "My name is... Hitler!", so he expected a more "ooooh!" response from the two (which he did't really get, and which probably irked him to no end).
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Old October 7 2013, 01:57 AM   #65
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Wait until Spock Prime drops the real bombshell-- "Oh, by the way, NuSpock. You have a half-brother you never knew about and he's looking for Sean Connery."
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Old October 7 2013, 02:53 AM   #66
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Melakon wrote: View Post
Wait until Spock Prime drops the real bombshell-- "Oh, by the way, NuSpock. You have a half-brother you never knew about and he's looking for Sean Connery."
In this reality, he is Sean Connery.
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Old October 7 2013, 02:56 AM   #67
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

But he always knew that Sybok was his half brother.
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Old October 7 2013, 09:35 AM   #68
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
They treated the whole Khan thing way too comic book like. Khan is not the Joker, who is a constant enemy of Batman. Khan is just one of many antagonists, and the crew had to face a lot more problems and adventures.

They confronted V'Ger, the Whale Probe and stopped a Klingon-Federation conspiracy. All that was far more dangerous than Khan ever could haved dreamed of being.
And yet none of the others managed to inflict the damage (physical and emotional) that Khan did. I'd say Spock isn't wrong on this.
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Old October 7 2013, 12:53 PM   #69
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Belz... wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
They treated the whole Khan thing way too comic book like. Khan is not the Joker, who is a constant enemy of Batman. Khan is just one of many antagonists, and the crew had to face a lot more problems and adventures.

They confronted V'Ger, the Whale Probe and stopped a Klingon-Federation conspiracy. All that was far more dangerous than Khan ever could haved dreamed of being.
And yet none of the others managed to inflict the damage (physical and emotional) that Khan did. I'd say Spock isn't wrong on this.

Not necessarily true:

* Kruge ordered the death of David, and left Kirk embittered for years to come.

* Chang gutted the Enterprise worse than Khan did: blowing a hole clean through the saucer. Framed Kirk for assassination, and was nearly successful in starting an interstellar war.

* Soren killed Kirk, trashed a planet, and his actions lead to the destruction of the D

* The Borg Queen nearly rewrote history, screwed with Picard's emotions, and assimilated an unknown number of his crew.

* Shinzon led to the E being nearly totaled, the mental rape of Troi, the death of Data, and screwed with Picard's perception of himself.

Plenty of others have ranked up a equal to higher tally than Khan. Khan's rep is largely post-TWOK hype centered on Spock's death. The Boba Fett effect.
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Old October 7 2013, 09:04 PM   #70
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

I don't think we should be allowed to use the fact that Spock Prime is coming after Nemesis. That sets the bar too high. I mean, the Borg were slicing the D like a chocolate cake, and it only survived because a god pulled them out of there. Khan is a formidable man, but he's no Borg.
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Old October 7 2013, 09:06 PM   #71
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
I don't think we should be allowed to use the fact that Spock Prime is coming after Nemesis. That sets the bar too high. I mean, the Borg were slicing the D like a chocolate cake, and it only survived because a god pulled them out of there. Khan is a formidable man, but he's no Borg.
True, I was limiting my list to movie villians. Toss in TV series villains and Khans goes from average (at best) to light weight.
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Old October 7 2013, 09:22 PM   #72
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
True, I was limiting my list to movie villians. Toss in TV series villains and Khans goes from average (at best) to light weight.
And there being enough chance for the Enterprise to meet the Borg much earlier, possibly as early as the next film*, the new crew is in for a big shock as to just how misleading Spock Prime statement was.


* Five years in deep space? What else did you think we would find there? You should have listened to Doctor McCoy.
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Old October 8 2013, 01:40 AM   #73
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
I don't think we should be allowed to use the fact that Spock Prime is coming after Nemesis. That sets the bar too high. I mean, the Borg were slicing the D like a chocolate cake, and it only survived because a god pulled them out of there. Khan is a formidable man, but he's no Borg.
True, I was limiting my list to movie villians. Toss in TV series villains and Khans goes from average (at best) to light weight.
Also, there's the exact phrasing of Spock Prime's words in that scene to consider:

"Khan Noonien Singh is the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever faced."

Nimoy was clearly only referring to the "most dangerous" foe encountered during his own personal service as a crewmember of the various Enterprises in the 23rd Century, not to any of the later adversaries encountered by Picard and his crew in the 24th Century.

Being only the Prime Universe under discussion in that particular moment, Q and the Borg wouldn't really even enter into the scope of the conversation.
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Old October 8 2013, 03:50 AM   #74
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

If Prime is going to tell them about Khan, why wouldn't he tell them about the Probe, V'ger, the Borg, the Giant Amoeba, the Doomsday Machine, etc. etc. etc. I mean as dangerous as he is Khan is a minnow compared to those dudes.
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Old October 8 2013, 03:59 AM   #75
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Re: Khan the most dangerous enemy of the original crew?

Agenda wrote: View Post
If Prime is going to tell them about Khan, why wouldn't he tell them about the Probe, V'ger, the Borg, the Giant Amoeba, the Doomsday Machine, etc. etc. etc. I mean as dangerous as he is Khan is a minnow compared to those dudes.
Yeeeup. If you limit it just to TOS, Khan is still a light weight.
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